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Genealogy => Thom(p)son Genealogy => Topic started by: Jon Heller on September 22, 2008, 01:08:01 PM

Title: Coat of Arms
Post by: Jon Heller on September 22, 2008, 01:08:01 PM
I apologize if this info is in an another post somewhere on this forum. If it is please redirect me!!

Does anyone have any more info on the Coat of Arms on the site (http://clanthompson.org/arms1.html (http://clanthompson.org/arms1.html))? I would love to know more about their history and what all the symbols mean. Why are there so many? When I look on the web for Thompson coat of arms, I always see this one: http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.c/qx/thomson-coat-arms.htm (http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.c/qx/thomson-coat-arms.htm).

What's the difference between the Crest Badge and the Coat of Arms?

Thanks -- and sorry for the beginner questions!! :)
Jon
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Michael Thompson on September 22, 2008, 07:42:03 PM
That's an interesting question McHaggis, and I'd like to know more about it too. Tom gave me some information in Estes Park, but our time was limited and I never got a really good answer to this one.

I noticed the site you referred to also included a suggested book on Thomson Family History by Kathryn Blevins. Anybody know anything about this book and whether it's any good?

Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Thomas Thompson on September 22, 2008, 09:39:21 PM
Hello Piper
   Space will not allow a complete discussion of all the heraldic devices and their meaning. Besides I am not an expert and what little I have learned came about only after the need to restore Clan Thomson.
   The coat of arms belong to the individual, think of it as being a social security number, one per customer.  In Scotland Lyon awards a description of the armiger's achievement (blazon). A heraldic artist paints a picture of what the blazon says,but the blazon is determinant. There is no such thing as a family coat of arms
   A cap badge with a belt and buckle means the wearer belongs to the chief who has the plant badge.  An armiger is entilted to have a single feather on his badge. A chief has Three feathers and a chieften has two feathers. Badges are not armoral. A stand alone badge of no decidedly heraldic charactor i.e. not in the form of an escutcheon or on a wreath, w/o strap and buckle, is available to anyone. An armiger usually has a silver badge inside a circle.
   Mary with the assistance of several members designed the Clan Thomson Society badge that we use on our letterheads etc. The red stage on white background is a common thread found on the majority of Thoms arms. I hope an expert will correct my errors in the above post.
Tom
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Jon Heller on September 23, 2008, 07:00:28 AM
Thanks for that info!! That's really interesting that there is no family coat of arms. You'd never guess when you do some searches on line. Everyone is selling products with family coat of arms. :) Any idea where the red stag originated? It will be nice to see that on an official badge some day!!! I have several items with the "Thomson" badge that I suppose is actually Campbell (the boar; "Ne Obliviscaris").

Are there any good books or resources online you know of that go in to more detail on this topic?

Jon
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Michael Thompson on September 23, 2008, 01:52:48 PM
Here is the coat of arms Jon mentioned.
(http://www.thompsonmanor.com/img/Thompsoncoatofarms.jpg)

Is there any historical significance to this at all? Did a Thompson armiger once hold these arms? Or is it in any way representative of our family?

Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: A. Thompson on September 23, 2008, 05:21:42 PM
Is there a difference between a sheild and coat of arms?   As far as shield always seemed to find locally one with 3 stars and sometimes a clover at bottom/center but no stag
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Graham Thompson on September 23, 2008, 08:28:59 PM
I believe that a coat of arms was carried into battle to signify who you belonged to. I dont no if thats true, I kinda pulled that off of a card from a card game i play. heres the link http://www.anycraze.com/showcard_full.asp?id=EXAR131&pp=magic_search
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Stirling Thompson on September 24, 2008, 05:41:10 AM
The shield is the primary portion of the coat of arms, the shield shaped central part, while the complete coat of arms includes the shield, helm, crest and supporters (if any). The coat of arms shown below is from the Workman's Manuscript (1587 ?) but does not appear in the official register. These arms have been identified as belonging to Henry Thomson, Lord Lyon (1498-1512) and has been used by subsequent Lords Lyon as a basis for issuing other Thomson arms as cadet branches. You can check out most of the Thomson arms on the Clan website.
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: A. Thompson on September 24, 2008, 05:57:44 AM
Ok.  looked up the coat of arms that had seen locally.  Apparently that one was created in England.  So the scottish ones the ones with Stags I guess.
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Booner on September 24, 2008, 05:07:40 PM
for a good starting point on the study of arms, try this website-->http://www.armorial-register.com

rgds
Booner
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Booner on September 24, 2008, 05:44:18 PM
this might be a better site for a general discussion --> http://www.baronage.co.uk/splashindex.html

Regards,
Booner
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Jon Heller on February 13, 2009, 11:31:17 AM
I haven't had much time to dig in to this topic like I wanted, but I recently stumbled across this site which list general meanings of symbols on Coat of Arms:
http://www.fleurdelis.com/meanings.htm

If I am reading it right the stag would mean someone who prefers peace but will fight when provoked and the color red indicates a warrior/martyr/military strength. Interesting.....
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Mary on February 16, 2009, 08:23:05 AM
Good discussion!

On the http://www.fleurdelis.com/meanings.htm site, you can check out what the other parts of the designs (arms) mean, too. 

There is a greater variety among the English coats of arms.....somewhat less of a theme. One of the predominant ones is magpies.  Remember - there are also Irish and Welsh arms (to further confuse the issue)!

The sellers of "family" coats of arms are doing a dis-service to all of us. Not only are they misrepresenting their goods, they are confusing the layman and, basically, bilking them out of money under false pretenses. You see these vendors at most of the larger games. I know none of our group will buy them because YOU are all so well informed  :) ARMS BELONG TO A PERSON ---- NOT a family. So, don't fall for the "family" coat of arms spiel.

If you can trace your Thom(p)son line back to the UK, Scotland or Ireland or to a British colony in the US prior to 1821 you can provide your genealogy in the approved manner to the Lyon Court to request that "arms might be granted for and in memory of" your ancestor. It isn't cheap and you have to have done your genealogy homework.....but you can get arms granted to your ancestor and you, as the legal and direct descendant, 'inherit' them. Your brothers/sons can also then apply and be granted arms based on the 'ancestor's' with appropriate variations. Ya want arms????
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Jon Heller on April 25, 2009, 01:57:43 PM
My mom recently found mugs that say "Clan Thomson" at the top, have a stag head on the badge and the motto "Truth Will Prevail". Anyone know if these are official? Or maybe someone is just trying to sell a new product? :)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Mary on April 25, 2009, 05:56:38 PM
Hi Jon -

Well, "truth will prevail" is one of the most common mottoes associated with Thom(p)son.  The tartan is, obviously, the Dress Blue.  HOWEVER, since Thomson is not a currently recognized clan and has no chief, it is not appropriate to have a belted clansman's crest on an item as IF it was a clan. That's why our logo is not a belted crest but a simple circle with some of the items usually associated with Thomson of that Ilk and most of the Thomsons who have matriculated since. When (and if) we eventually get the society recognized as representative of Thoms worldwide, and get a grant of arms for the society, we will have a LEGAL clan crest.....but the one in your picture is not.

Would there be any interest in items with the society logo on them?  We just had 3" buttons made and a bumper sticker that has the logo and says "RESTORE CLAN THOMPSON" and our web address on them. We were hoping to be able to sell them at games to any Thom(p)sons who might be interested. We don't have a large, available bank roll and we hope to make a bit selling these.  We can have mugs made with the logo, or hats, steins, stamps (postage), notepads, etc.

What'cha think?

Mary
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Michael Thompson on April 25, 2009, 08:27:58 PM
Thomson is not a currently recognized clan and has no chief, it is not appropriate to have a belted clansman's crest on an item as IF it was a clan. That's why our logo is not a belted crest

You know, I was wondering about that Mary. I know the belt is not appropriate, but isn't the circle used by the chieftain for his arms? And if we do get approved as a society and granted arms, would the members use the belt, or would the circle apply corporately to all of us as members, since we don't have a chieftain?

And yes, I for one would be interested in clan crest items. I like your red stag head with the red circle and "Clan Thompson Society" in it. Since we seem to have so much trouble agreeing on a motto, I'm not sure whether anything else would be appropriate until we get word back from the Lord Lyon.
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Mary on April 25, 2009, 08:49:54 PM
Hi Michael -

I may be wrong about this, but I believe the "society" would be granted the arms (in lieu of a chief) and we would be (ergo) clan members who would use the belted crest. That's how I THINK it would work. To my way of thinking, that would be logical.  It seems to me that all the clans I know of who don't have chiefs (and, therefore, have a society or organization) use a belted crest.

Scott --- do you know for sure how this would work? 
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Donna on April 26, 2009, 12:16:19 AM
Hey Mary,

Are the Buttons and Bumper Stickers available for Clan members to purchase?

Donna
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Mary on April 26, 2009, 08:42:55 AM
Hi Donna -

They will be!  I'm getting the logos onto items online so they can be purchased directly from the company who makes the 'blank' items. The way it will work (I think!) is that I will do the design onto items and then you will be able to go there and buy whatever you like. You are going to have to pay shipping whether you buy from us or directly through the online company...so no difference there. They set their price (same price I paid for items to take to the games for sale) and then we set a small profit margin on top of that (which we will do at the games too) and that profit is deposited directly to the Clan Thompson bank account through PayPal when an item is purchased online.

Give me a few days to get it done and I'll let you know when it's ready to go!

Mary
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Jon Heller on April 27, 2009, 05:48:50 AM
Thanks for the info -- I figured it wasn't "official" but thought it was very interesting. Someone saw a market for thomson clan items! HA! I like the red stag you you developed much better and would definitely buy some items with it on there. I think selling the buttons and bumper stickers and possibly more like you mentioned is a great idea to raise additional funds. My pipe band has done really well selling t-shirts, patches and stickers at those events. We get some income AND advertising as people wear the shirts and put stickers on their cars etc. I'll take a mug and and a stein! :)
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Mary on April 27, 2009, 10:09:13 AM
Quote
I'll take a mug and and a stein!

And I'll hold you to it!  ;)
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Jon Heller on April 27, 2009, 12:42:16 PM
Better add a flask to that order .... coffee, beer, and whisky. That should cover it :)
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Pamela K. Thompson on May 22, 2009, 07:08:57 AM
Mary, we want some of whatever! T-shirts would be great and I know Katey would wear hers proudly to school! Let us know! Any chance of getting them before we go to the Game sin K.C. June 13?. Karma
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Mary on May 22, 2009, 11:32:33 AM
Hi Karma -

Sent an email out to Society members with info!

Mary
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Donna on May 22, 2009, 12:00:58 PM
Hey Y'all

If you haven't already done so, please take time to check out Zazzle.com
( Thanks Mary   :-*  )
I just ordered a Clan Thompson Society tee shirt for my daughter in law, which will make her very happy and I'm very happy that a wee bit of the cost will be going back to Clan Thompson Society!
 
Donna
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Graham Thompson on May 26, 2009, 02:44:13 PM
So the coat of arms earlyer in this post is that our offical one? If not i would like to creat one
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Mary on May 26, 2009, 03:04:54 PM
No Graham, it's NOT a Coat of Arms.  It's a logo for the Clan Thompson Society. We may achieve arms in the future which would then be the society's Coat of Arms and we could use it as the basis for clan members' crests.  But the current image of the stag, 2 stars, and the circle is the SOCIETY LOGO. We are free to put that on any items we wish because it is NOT a coat of arms. Arms must be granted by Lyon Court and that's still years away.  :'(
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Michael Thompson on May 27, 2009, 08:29:51 PM
Which brings up something that many of us know by heart, but others may not be aware of, namely that THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN OFFICIAL THOMPSON COAT OF ARMS. Arms are granted to an individual. Apparently, there is some possibility that our society may be granted arms, but currently, there is no chieftan for Clan Thompson, so we cannot possibly have arms at this point. That means that anybody advertising a Coat of Arms for Thompson on the web or at games or a festival is either ignorant or lying.

Even family crests are suspect, as they might be appropriate to a particular family of Thompsons, but certainly not applicable to all Thompsons everywhere.

I never knew a lot of this before I joined this forum and I've been grateful for what I've found here, so I try to pass it on. I hope I did so accurately.
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Jon Heller on June 05, 2009, 08:36:18 AM
Haven't been on for a while and just noticed the Zazzle.com post. Sweet! Do you just upload an image and they print shirts as needed?

Ordering a t-shirt now - Thanks for doing that!
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Pamela K. Thompson on June 05, 2009, 07:50:18 PM
Jon, We've got ours and they are AWESOME! Jim and I opted for the regular white T's but Kate chose a black fitted T. She looks amazing in it, we'll use her as a billboard! ;D Karma
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Mary on June 07, 2009, 09:28:27 AM
Quote
Do you just upload an image and they print shirts as needed?

Yep! You can make your own account and upload photos and add text......all kinds of neat things. Like I said, they are more expensive, but you can have exactly what you want and only have to buy ONE!!

The markup (10% on most things) is deposited directly to the clan PayPal account, so it makes us a bit of money.

Mary
Title: Re: Coat of Arms
Post by: Lin and Malia Thompson on January 09, 2010, 07:37:54 PM
This year, we found a document in my father-in-laws research from the Montgomery Historical Society that describes an arm, crest, and motto, for the Thomson family who settled in Norriton, PA and Marksboro, NJ.  This coat of arms is very similar to the one chosen by Clan Thomson so we're very happy with the red stag.  Hope it will help other families with their research.

Here's the excerpt:  .   "Among the writings of one of the descendants is a description of the old ancestral home of Robert Curry Thomson at Changewater, N.J.  It says, "A stag's head, with the antlers always hung in the hall, and I have a faded remembrance of being told when a child that it represented a special connection with the Thomson name.  I have since learned that it must have represented a part of the Thomson Arms."  These writings also state that the following was taken from a genealogy of the family compiled by Edward Sharp Thomson of Port Colden, N.J.  This genealogy has not been found.
The Arms:  A stag's head, cabossed, affronted, gu.  Cross-crosslet, fitched, on a agure, engrailed chief, between two spur rowels.
The Crest:  A dexter, embowed arm in armor, the hand ppr. holding a cross-crosslet, fitched, -all gu.
The Motto:  Honestie is the best policie." 

Excerpt from document entitled "Thomson Genealogy and History.  Historical Society of Montgomery County, PA , stamped #8232.