clanforum
Genealogy => Thom(p)son Genealogy => Topic started by: MACTAVISH on February 28, 2008, 10:56:32 AM
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A BIG HI! GUESS WHO??CLUES? MEAN/ ARGUMENTATIVE/ HUMOUROUS/ IN SITU/PEDANTIC/ FLIRT. IT IS I; STEVIE MACTAVISH
HERES A COUPLE OF POINTS I WANT TO MAKE(OR IS THAT SUGGEST NOW IM A HONOURY MEMBER- BEST BEHAVIOUR ETC)
1. I THINK YOU SHOULD SEEK TO OFFICIALLY CLAIM THE THOMPSON TARTANS. THEY ARE CALLED THOMPSON AND SHOULD ONLY BE USED BY THAT CLAN. ANYONE ELSE CLAIMING THEM SHOULD BE PENALISED. YOU KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT. IF THEY CAN DO IT.........
2. IN MY YEARS OF RESEARCH I ONCE CAME ACROSS THE THOMPSON CREST/ARMS. I ONCE BROOCHED THE SUBJECT AND ERNIE RESPONDED A WEE BIT. I CANNOT BE MORE SPECIFIC AS TO WHERE I CAME ACROSS IT BUT FEEL IT WAS WHILST RESEARCHING CAMPBELL THREADS, BUT DONT QUOTE ME ON THAT. THE ARMS HAD 3 MAGPIES IN A SHIELD WITH PLUMAGE. I FEEL THE THREAD WAS THAT THE CAMPBELL ARE LINKED TO MAGPIES ...........
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Hello and welcome our very own trouble maker! ;D I say that with great fondness. :-* Great to have you here MacTavish! I like your suggestions.
Barbara
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Welcome. I also agree. Punish everyone everyone else claiming to be a Thom(p)son when there not.
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A BIG HI! GUESS WHO??CLUES? MEAN/ ARGUMENTATIVE/ HUMOUROUS/ IN SITU/PEDANTIC/ FLIRT. IT IS I; STEVIE MACTAVISH
HERES A COUPLE OF POINTS I WANT TO MAKE(OR IS THAT SUGGEST NOW IM A HONOURY MEMBER- BEST BEHAVIOUR ETC)
1. I THINK YOU SHOULD SEEK TO OFFICIALLY CLAIM THE THOMPSON TARTANS. THEY ARE CALLED THOMPSON AND SHOULD ONLY BE USED BY THAT CLAN. ANYONE ELSE CLAIMING THEM SHOULD BE PENALISED. YOU KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT. IF THEY CAN DO IT.........
2. IN MY YEARS OF RESEARCH I ONCE CAME ACROSS THE THOMPSON CREST/ARMS. I ONCE BROOCHED THE SUBJECT AND ERNIE RESPONDED A WEE BIT. I CANNOT BE MORE SPECIFIC AS TO WHERE I CAME ACROSS IT BUT FEEL IT WAS WHILST RESEARCHING CAMPBELL THREADS, BUT DONT QUOTE ME ON THAT. THE ARMS HAD 3 MAGPIES IN A SHIELD WITH PLUMAGE. I FEEL THE THREAD WAS THAT THE CAMPBELL ARE LINKED TO MAGPIES ...........
Stevie, have you looked on the last page of Arms on the home page of this forum? William David Cargill Thompson has arms with magpies and stags head. I thought the Campbell Arms were associated with the wild boar? I don't know all I need to know about this stuff. ;D
Barbara
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im not associating the thompsons with the campbells. sorry if i gave that impression. no, it was while i was looking at campbell links that i came accross it in another category- not campbell. it was definate a crest with 3 magpies , i logged it because of my fascination with that bird. it wasnt a small family/ group crest.it was THE thompson clan crest. i seem to recall maybe a green shield with 3 magpies- 2 at the top one at bottom. lots of plumes and a helmet above and around.
i dont want to offend or labour a point but the thompsons were great rievers-thieves and magpies are great thieves, especially anything shiny. im sorry i didnt look into it properly but i confess that ive come across so many links and claims re your family that i probably discarded it as just another one....but in retrospect........
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Wish you could run across that again, MacT. Were the birds magpies or martins? A martin in Heraldry is the cadency mark of a fourth son as I understand from a book one of my relatives wrote about our family. From his research our family descended from King Malcolm IV who gave his sister or stepsister 15,000 acres as a dowry when she married Duncan, Earl of Fife in 1160 AD. Their descendants changed their name and their Arms were found as belonging only to that name in the Arms College, London because of all the records stolen from Scotland by Cromwell. >:( A lot of our lines papers were found in England and France. The Arms were a golden crown, signifying relationship to a Monarch, supporting a shock of grain and a martin perched atop the grain. They are not found at the office of Lord Lyon because of Cromwell >:( but are found in England as I mentioned before. The Dowry lands you would know today as Easter Cash and Wester Cash in Fife. Wish I knew as much about my Thomas and Thomason ancestors. :-\
Friends and family that's something to take into consideration while researching, your family papers may be found in England or France even though they originated in Scotland.
By the way MacT what do the magpies signify? I know some of my ancestors were not nice people. ;D
Barbara
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IM NOT SURE WHAT THEY MEAN IN HERALDIC TERMS; PROBABLY SOMETHING QUITE NOBLE. IN GENERAL TERMS RE SCOTLAND THEY SIGNIFY THEIVES AND IMPENDING DOOM!
IM GOING TO INVERARAY IN APRIL, I'LL SEE IF ICAN RETRACE MY SEARCH.
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I THINK THE EPICENTRE,CORE, FOCAL POINT OF THE THOM(P)SONS IS THE MYSTICAL PLACE=BERWICK ON TWEED(FAVOURITE OF LATE QUEEN MOTHER). ACCORDING TO ALL IVE READ, THIS IS THE BORDER AREA THAT THEY COME FROM. AT LEAST HIS WAS THE PLACE THAT MANY WERE JUDGED AND PUNISHED; SO THEY MUST HAVE COME FROM THAT LOCALE.
I THINK THE NAME PROBLEM-THOMSON/THOMPSON- ORIGINATES THERE.YOU SEE, THROUGH HISTORY, BERWICK HAS BEEN IN SCOTLAND THEN ENGLAND THEN SCOTLAND THEN ENGLAND AND AT THE MOMENT, SCOTLAND AGAIN. THE BOUNDERIES HAVE CHANGED SO MANY TIMES!AT THIS TIME YOU CAN STAND ON THE NORTH BANK OF THE TWEED AND BE IN SCOTLAND OR SOUTH BANK AND BE IN ENGLAND.
I SUGGEST THAT OCCASSIONALLY, WHEN THE TOWNS BEEN ENGLISH THE PEOPLE HAVE COME UNDER ENGLISH GOVERNMENT AND THE NAMES HAVE BEEN RECORDED BY THEIR WAY. THEN WHEN IN SCOTLAND- THE SCOTS WAY.
ANOTHER POINT I WANT TO MAKE IS THAT SOMETIME PRIOR TO 1700, A GROUP FROM THAT EGION TRAVELLED NORTH,MAYBE TO ESCAPE PROSECUTION FOR A DEMEANOUR,AND SETTLED AS A SEPT OF THE MACTAVISH. THAT THEY WERE THERE IS IREFUTABLE AND IT WAS AS A SEPT NOT A NAME CHANGE. THIS WOULD ANSWER THE UNSURE TENATIVE LINK TO THE MACTAVISH.
SORRY IF IM RAMBLING.......I CAN DISCUSS THIS TOPIC MORE?
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CAN I JUST SAY ONE THING ON AN UNRELATED TOPIC= DEMI MOORE RECENTLY MADE A FILM-NOW SHOWING ON UK TV- CALLED 'HALF LIGHT' WHERE SHE FALLS IN LOVE WITH A GHOST CALLED ANGUS McCULLOGH IN A LIGHTHOUSE IN SCOTLAND. I WAS NOT THE VOICEOVER. I'VE HAD 2 PHONECALLS FROM OLD FRIENDS/ COMMENTS IN POLITE COMPANY AND MY WIFE HAS SAID AS MUCH.......BUT THE BEST WAS MY WEE 2 YEAR OLD SON LOOKING AT THE TV AND SAYING 'DA DA'.
BY THE WAY THE GHOST GETS TO KNOW DEMI VERY WELL SHES A WEE BIT NUMB FROM COLOGEN OR SURGERY BUT NEVERTHELESS, IF THEYD USED MY VOICE I WOULD HAVE INSISTED ON............ BUT GIVE ME SANDRA BULLOCK ANYTIME
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SORRY IF IM RAMBLING.......I CAN DISCUSS THIS TOPIC MORE?
As far as I'm concerned I would welcome any and all discussion/education on the topic, MacT. We need the good, the bad and the ugly to help us in our quest and to make informed decisions.
I also like Sandra Bullock, think she's a fine actress and wish she did more movies.
Barbara
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Keep on talking MACTAVISH. You can be as big a pain as you want to be. You're amoung family.
Big T
aka Booner
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THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE CHAPS.......
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MACTAVISH,
Since you're "in situ" I have a question for you. In general, would a family that can trace it's ancestors back to a border reiver family be held with a certain amount of disdain by a highlander family today?
You see, having done a little studying of the Reiver period, if my family originated there, and took part in it, I would take a certain amount of pride in that fact. They would have had to have been pretty tough to have survived it, no matter what they did.
Regards,
Booner
p.s.
Thanks to you and Cathy for joining us.
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TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION AS BEST ICAN. THE SCOTS CAN BE DIVIDED INTO 2 PEOPLES HIGHLANDERS AND NOT HIGHLANDERS. THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN CULTURE AND HISTORY.EVEN TODAY THE HIGHLANDERS CONSIDER THEMSELVES TRUE SCOTS AND THE NON HIGHLANDERS TOO INFLUENCED BY CITYLIFE/ ENGLISH/MONEY ETC.YET THEY HAVE A COMMON ENEMY- THE ENGLISH . HOWDO HIGHLANDERS FEEL ABOUT REIVERS OF OLD? WELL TIME CAN CHANGE FACTS AND NOWADAYS ITS BECOME THAT THE REIVERS ONLY STOLE FROM THE ENGLISH(NOT TRUE) AND THATS VERY COMMENDABLE. A HIGHLANDER WOULD CONSIDER THE REIVER AS A LIKABLE SCOUNDREL,A THORN IN THE ENGLISH SIDE.
NB . EVEN IN THE ARMY THERE ARE SERIOUS FIGHTS BETWIXT HIGHLAND AND NON HIGHLAND, THE HIGHLANDER WILL ALWAYS VOICE THAT A GLASGOW OR EDINBURGH PERSON IS NOT A TRUE SCOT!HOPE THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS. HAVE YOU EVER READ ANY BOOKS BY JOHN PREEBLES?
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Mactavish,
Sorry to say I have not. But a did a google search and beleive he was a Scotish historian? The was also a John Preebles who was in the Black Watch during the American Revolution, but I don't think you ment him.
Regards,
Booner
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PREEBLESWRITES ABOUT THINGS LIKE THE CLEARANCES.BUT BELIEVE HEWROTEVERY GOOD BOOK RE REIVERS/BORDERS
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I found 4 his works on Amazon.com. He has/had a book out about Culloden, the Clearances, Glencoe, and history of Scotland. I plan on getting the Culloden & Clearance books. Thanks for informing me/us about him. He seems to be a very respected author.
Booner
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Joh Pebbles wrote a lot of very good historic books on Scotland, I have several of them. do an ebay search and you will find more of them. Mary has a great librarian website....but I can not recall the name of it! Mary??
Cathy
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IM PRETTY SURE HES WROTE ABOUT THE BORDERS IN ONE BOOK..........MAYBE CALLED 'THE REIVERS'
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I didn't find anything regarding Reivers, but did order his Culloden & Highland Clearance book.
Thanks for the introduction to him. FRom the reviews i've read, he sounds like the type of historical author I like. Alot of stories about the common man in the fight.
Booner
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Just got Prebble's "The Highland Clearances" today. Haven't had much time to read it but am on page 30. I like his style of writing, as he tells the story through the lives of various people while he interweives the over all history into the story. It's told from a personal level rather than from an academic view-point; very readable. In about 3-4 pages he did a great job of explaining the clan system very clearly.
Booner
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GLAD YOU LIKE HIM BOONER, IVE ALWAYS FOUND HIM A WEALTH OF INFORMATION....STILL SURE HES WROTE ABOUT REIVERS OR BORDERERS???????SEE WHAT I CAN FIND.....
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I'd be willing to help you find John Preebles books, but I CAN'T FIND THEM! Do I have the spelling right???? I've tried several sources and come up empty-handed.................................. ???
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Darlin' Mary
I found mine on Amazon.com, but it did take some looking.
And MACTAVISH, thanks again for the introduction to a really good writer. If you can find where he wrote somthing concerning the Reivers, I'd be really interested.
Booner
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JUST GOT BACK. IVE SPENT TIME WITH ARCHIVISTS/HISTORANS AND THOMPSONS.IVE READ RECORDS/ WATCHED SLIDES-TILL I COULDNT KEEP MY EYES FOCUSED ANYMORE.I AM SENDING TO TOM AND MARY A HUGE WAD OF PHOTO COPIES AND OTHER BITS, INCLUDING PAGES TORN FROM THE PHONE BOOK. IM GOING TO MAKE SOME BOLD STATEMENTS THAT I FEEL I CAN QUALIFY.
APART FROM A WEE HANDFUL OF THOMPSONS THAT WENT NORTH TO SKIPNESS AS A SEPT- THERE ARE 20+ GRAVES THERE- THE THOMSONS/THOMPSONS/THOMS/THOMAS'S HAVE NO CONNECTION TO MACTAVISH
THOMSON THOMPSON AND THOMSONE ETC ARE THE SAME FAMILY.
THE ROOT AND VERY CORE OF YOUR BEGINNINGS IS KELSO, IM SENDING RECORDS FROM 1600 BUT PREVIOUS TO THAT PEOPLE OF YOUR NAME LIVED THERE IN ABUNDANCE, MOSTLY BETWEEN KELSO AND DUNS. THE THOMSON AREA IS LOOSELY CALLED ROXBURGHE WHICH INCORPERATES A WIDER AREA. IT IS MY SUBMISSION THAT THE FAMILY SPREAD DOWN TO DUMFRIES AND INTO GALLOWAY AND UP TO THE LOTHIANS BUT THIS IS YOUR MECCA.....KELSO
MORE TO COME..............
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THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!! :-* :-* :-* Now, for sure, we know where to concentrate our searches.
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ARCHIVISTS IN SCOTLAND REFER TO ALL THIS CLANS NAMES COLLECTIVELY AS 'TOMS' AND I SUGGEST WE DO THE SAME.. EN ROTE TO MARY ARE LISTS OF MARRIAGES DEATHS BIRTHS AND BURIAL SITES OF THIS CLAN. THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF THEM. PEOPLE OF YOUR NAME INHABITED THE ROXBURGHE AREA BEFORE 1600 AND MANY ARE STILL THERE TODAY.PHOTOS OF GRAVES AND LOTS OF DATA ARE HEADING YOUR WAY FROM PROFESSIONAL ARCHIVISTS IN SCOTLAND. THERE CAN BE LITTLE DOUBT THAT PEOPLE OF YOUR NAMES ORIGINATE FROM ROXBURGHE AND HAVE NO ATTACHMENT TO CLAN MACTAVISH. ALL YOUVE DONE THROUGH THEIR DECEIT IS BECOME THEIR GRAVY TRAIN. SO, SCOTTISH 'TOMS' HAVE NO ATTACHMENT TO CLAN MACTAVISH (AND THERE ARE 1,000s OF THEM!). IF YOU KNOW OF PEOPLE STILL UNDER THAT MISGUIDANCE OR INDEED,IF YOURE READING THIS.....ITS VERY SIMPLE, IF THEY CAN SHOW YOURE A SEPT OR NAME CHANGE OF THEIRS, TELL THEM TO DO IT. WHERE ARE THE RECORDS/PARISH ACCOUNTS/ GRAVES/ FACTS?
THIS SITE AND TRUE TOM CLAN CAN SHOW YOU ANCESTRAL GRAVES AND RECORDS BACK TO PRE 1600 NONE OF WHICH HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH DUNARDRY. IF THEY INSIST THAT NAMES WERE CHANGED TO AVOID PERSECUTION AFTER CULLODEN; ASK THEM TO SHOW YOU RECORDS OF DUNARDRY PEOPLE AT CULLODEN- THERE WERE NONE, LASTLY ASK THEM TO SHOW YOU PHOTOS OF GRAVES WITH THOMSON ON IN KNAPDALE. THEY CANT. THE CLAIM WAS MADE TO FINANCE THEIR FANTASY WORLD. NO MACTAVISH WILL HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THEM. ASK THEM TO SHOW YOU HOW MANY MACTAVISH THEY HAVE IN THEIR SOCIETY. ASK THEM HOW MANY TOMS FROM SCOTLAND- NONE, PEOPLE KNOW THE TRUTH HERE. LOOK AT THEIR AUDIT PUBLISHED ON TRUEMACTAVISH, WORRYING!
THIS TRUE CLAN SOCIETY WILL SHOW YOU FACTUAL DOCUMENT(NOT QUOTE SELECTIVE BOOKS THAT ALL CONTRADICT EACH OTHER.) AND PHOTOGRAPHS OF YOUR REAL HERITAGE. WHERE FROM? REAL ARCHIVISTS IN SCOTLAND!
LASTLY REDEEM YOUR CREDIT CARD DETAILS THOSE PARASITES WILL BLEED YOU DRY. STILL NOT SURE;
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MacTavish what a Godsend you are! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
Are we not fortunate family and friends to have The Real MacTavish as a friend and honorary Thom(p)son? You bet we are!!!
<<hugs>> MacT. :-*
Barbara
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Question MacTavish, I've traced my 9th grt. grandfather George Thomason to Sudlow, England, born 1576, is Sudlow any where near the Borders?
By the way, his son named George Thomason too is very famous, Google his name to read about him.
Barbara
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MACTAVISH,
Thanks for taking your time to do the research. There is no calculation what you've saved us.
But, other than spending your time doing research for us, what else did you do? Is it pretty sure that you'll be moving there?
Regards
Booner
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I HAVE TO SAY BARBARA; IVE NEVER HEARD OF SUDLOW- AND CANT FIND IT ON THE MAP..........ANY MORE INFO?/
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BOONER; THE JURY'S STILL OUT ON RELOCATING. BEAUTIFUL PLACE GREAT HOSPITAL BUT MORE RESPONSIBILITY FOR WAGE SHE GETS NOW.................
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I HAVE TO SAY BARBARA; IVE NEVER HEARD OF SUDLOW- AND CANT FIND IT ON THE MAP..........ANY MORE INFO?/
Nothing other than his name, George Thomason, year of his birth-1576, and birth place, Sudlow, England. Thanks for trying MacT, it was a long shot, that far back in time.
Barbara
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Barbara,
Thanks for the kind words.
Try this link for Sudlow:
http://www.geocities.com/jthoma@sbcglobal.net/index.html
I googled Sudlow and came up with the above link with this description:
THE THOMASON FAMILY TREE
Descendants of George Thomason of Sudlow, a small hamlet in Cheshire County, England as compiled by Kenneth Thomasson and John R Thomason.
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Thank you Stu. I took a look at the site and it has a lot of my relatives. I will have to email one of the Thomasons/Thomassons that own that site. I love finding new cousins!
I really, really want to find out where my 9th. grt. grandfather George (from Sudlow) Thomason's father was from. I'm researching this line because of the Thomasons in the Borders area of Scotland, and hoping they originally came from there.
Barbara
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WELL BARBARA, IF ITS IN CHESHIRE, ITS ABOUT 200 MILES AWAY HOPE THAT HELPS. I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU SEARCH FROM AN ANGLE RE THE WAR OF THE ROSES. CHESTER WERE THE SIDE OF LANCASTRIANS ......AND SO WERE THE SCOTS FROM THE BORDERS, AFTERWARDS THERE WAS AGOOD ALLIANCE BETWIXT THE 2.............STEVIE
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Thanks MacT, I will. I'm dissapointed Sudlow is so far away from the Borders, was hoping it was closer. In the past I've read a lot about the War of the Roses but over the years have forgotten a lot of it. Will have to bone up on it.
Barbara
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Found the following on internet. Seems a good source.
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/archives/source-history.htm
Family/Personal Papers
Our collections include material relating to notable Dundee families, including local business magnates such as the Cox and Baxter families. We also have records pertaining to a number of important individuals who had a connection with the Tayside and North Fife area. These include James Thompson, Dr. William Maxwell Jamieson, Peter Carmichael, Joseph Johnston Lee, Dr John Berry and Dr Ruth Young. Again, if you are looking for records of a specific person the SCAN website is always a good first port of call. For papers held in private archives you should consult the National Register of Archives for Scotland (NRAS) and the NRA.
Maybe this can help some.
Paula