Author Topic: clan thom(p)son and mactavish  (Read 8841 times)

arlin payne

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clan thom(p)son and mactavish
« on: August 27, 2008, 12:30:03 PM »
I have a question that I haven't seen mentioned any where. What happens if and
when Clan thom(p)son and Clan MacTavish set up tents at the same highland
games or get together? By Clan MacTavish I mean Stephens group.

Arlin ;D

Forum_mgr

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Re: clan thom(p)son and mactavish
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2008, 01:09:43 PM »
Hi Arlin - good question.

We are two distinct, separate groups (clans) and are free to set up at any location SEPARATELY.  While some Thom(p)sons may choose to join MacTavish (if they have Argyll roots), the vast majority of Thoms (all variations) belong to either the Thompsons around Argyll in the Lothian areas or to those in Dumfriesshire/Ayrshire.

Clan MacTavish has no basis for claiming Thom(p)sons. Their sole claim is that the names mean the same - "son of Thomas or Tom."  If that's the case, then someone had better tell the chief of Clan MacThomas that he TOO must be a MacTavish and cannot be a chief of his own clan!

If there is a problem at a games, it won't come from us. I know Tom, Mary, Harold, Dan, Tom, Fred, etc. are simply celebrating their history as are the MacTavish. One day, they should just admit that we ARE NOT MACTAVISH and get on with building their clan from MacTavish members.

F.M.

arlin payne

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Re: clan thom(p)son and mactavish
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2008, 03:51:33 PM »
Thanks F.M. I had been thinking about that for a while now and knowing that there
were hard feelings among some, I had to ask.

Arlin ;D
« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 03:57:03 PM by arlin payne »

Stirling Thompson

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Re: clan thom(p)son and mactavish
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2008, 05:31:30 PM »
I have always hoped that the issues between the Thoms and the MacTavishs could be resolved peacefully. I know there are good folks there just as there are here. I have simply felt that the Thompson name is capable of standing on its own and that I am a Thompson not a MacTavish and besides as a free man I can pledge my loyalty to whomever I choose. It may well be we are all related in some way... There is an old saying in Scotland that "We're all Jock Tomsons bairns" which simply means we're all related and as such no one is better than anyone else... we're all equals.
Semper Fidelis! Semper Familia!
Stu

Booner

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Re: clan thom(p)son and mactavish
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2008, 10:12:02 PM »
Dear Arlin,

In two weeks we'll find out what happens when the two clans meet at the Estes Park Games. Our booth is at the end of the tent, while the MacTavishes booth is 1/2 way along the side of the same tent. So I'm sure we'll see each other often.  I don't expect any problems between us.

I do expect some people to ask us why the MacTavishs' claim the Thompsons' as a part of their clan, (just the same as the Campbells' do),  while we view ourselves as a seperate and distinct clan. And we will, of course explain why we are two distinct clans, and let those asking decide for themselves.

As the MacTavishes' are one of the honored clans at the event, I will of course, respectfullly greet and congratulate them because it would be the proper thing to do.  And depending how I'm treated, maybe ask them to sign our patition to Lord Lyon be recognized as a clan.

A report will follow.

Regards,
Booner


Donna

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Re: clan thom(p)son and mactavish
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2008, 12:49:13 AM »
If the Thompsons, as a whole, were half as nice as the folks I've come to know here, it's no wonder the Campbell's and the MacTavish's both want to claim us as their own.

Donna
ANY DAY ABOVE GROUND IS A GOOD DAY !

MACTAVISH

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Re: clan thom(p)son and mactavish
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2008, 03:43:28 AM »
I KEEP INSISTING - BUT NO ONES TAKING IT ON BOARD; THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SUCCESSIVE LYONS AND GENEAOLOGY AUTHORS ARE NON GAELIC SPEAKING. PLEASE ASK THESE PEOPLE AND THE WEE ***** IN CANADA AND HIS DWARFS TO QUALIFY HOW TAVISH COMES FROM THE GAELIC FOR THOMAS. IM GAELIC SPEAKING-TIOMAS IS THOMAS AND TAVISH MEANS TWIN FACT. HERSANOTHER SCOTTISH FIRST NAMES SITE .............
http://www.ourbabynames.co.uk/scottishboy.php?pg=8
 I CAN GIVE DOZENS MORE INCLUDING OFFICIAL GAELIC(MOD) SITES.
 THE PEDANTIC HONOURARY PAIN IN THE SEAT

MACTAVISH

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MACTAVISH

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Re: clan thom(p)son and mactavish
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2008, 03:54:39 AM »
TRY http://www. gaelic-aisling.com      AND LOOK UP TAVISH IN SCOTTISH NAMES

Mary

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Re: clan thom(p)son and mactavish
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2008, 03:43:53 PM »
Hello my little favorite pain in the butt!

OK - Mr. Gaelic.......got a couple questions.  The MacTavish claim "son of Tom or Thomas" and are bolstered by Black's book.  They use:  MacTammais nd MacTamhais

They also rely on Black's works to support their claim:  Can you shed any light on HOW???

The Surnames of Scotland, by George F. Black, 1999 - The following surnames mean ‘son of Tammie, Thomas, Thom, or Tom’ :
1.   MACVISH, Maccause, Maccavish, Maccawis, Maccaws, McAwis, G. MacThomhais.
2.   MACCOMB, Maccombe. From G. MacThom, often Englished Thom.
3.   MACCOMBICH, Macchombich. G. MacThomaidh ‘son of Tommie (diminutive of Thomas).
4.   MACCOMBIE, Maccombe, Maccomie, Macomie. G. MacComaidh, a contracted form of MacThomaidh,’son of Tommie or Tommy.  In Perthshire frequently Englished Thomson.
5.   MACOMISH, Maccomish. G. Mac Thomais.
6.   MACTAVISH. From G. Mac Tamhais, a form of MacThamhais, ‘son of Tammas,’ the lowland Scots form of Thomas.
7.   MACTHOM. G. MacThom.
8.   MACTHOMAS. G. Mac Tomais.
9.   THOM. A diminutive of Thomas.
10.   THOMAS. A COMMON Anglo-Norman personal name. It is from the Syriac teoma, Heb. toam, ‘twin,’ rendered by Greek Didymus in St. John, xi:16. In Gaelic it assumes the form Tomas, Tomhus.
11.   THOMASON, Thomasson,
12.   THOMLING.
13.   THOMPSON, ‘SON OF Thom, q.v. with intrusive  P .
14.   THOMS, FROM DIMINUTIVE OF Thom.
15.   THOMSON.



OUR NOTE: G. F.  BLACK DOES NOT REFERENCE THAT MACTAVISH ‘ANGLICISED’ THEIR SURNAME AS THOMSON, NOR DOES HE RECORD A TRANSITION FROM MACTAVISH TO THOMSON. ADDITIONALLY, HE GIVES NO EXAMPLE OF ONE PATRONYMIC SURNAME HAVING PRECEDENCE OR SUPERIORITY OVER ANOTHER SIMILAR SURNAME

MACTAVISH

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Re: clan thom(p)son and mactavish
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2008, 10:28:17 PM »
ITS VERY SIMPLE. BLACK- ENGLISH SPEAKING - IS WRONG. ITS IRREFUTABLE. WE HAVE OUR OWN TRANSLATION FOR THOMAS= TIOMAS.FACT. TAVISH=TWIN. FACT. LOOK AT ALL THE GAELIC WEB SITES. YOU CAN ACTUALLY ASK QUESTIONSVIA NET OF LANGUAGE SPECIALISTS, TRY IT. TAVISH DOES NOT AND NEVER HAS MEANT THOMAS. FACT.ALL BOOKS CONTRADICT EACH OTHER. BLACKS CONFUSION- AND INDEED MANY ENGLISH SCOTS- IS DUE TO THE SCOTS PRONUNCIATION OF TOM-THEY SAY'TAM' AND PEOPLE WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER THINK THIS A SHORTENING OF TAM-HAIS.I REITERATE TIOMAS IS THOMAS THAMHAIS IS TWIN. FACT.

MACTAVISH

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Re: clan thom(p)son and mactavish
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2008, 11:02:41 AM »
TRY THIS SITE= http://www.englishirishdictionary.com/dictionary
where it says 'irish word; type in 'thomas'.
according to the spoonheads; 'tavish' should come up.
 NO; ITS A MEASURMENTOF SEATING!

MACTAVISH

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MACTAVISH

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Re: clan thom(p)son and mactavish
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2008, 11:40:47 AM »
heres an irish (the root of all gaelic) site=
http://www.dochara.com/stuff/names-old-boys-mu.php
lookat thomas equivalent

i can do this forever; but i think ive made my pioint

MACTAVISH

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Re: clan thom(p)son and mactavish
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2008, 11:52:53 AM »
 THE SPOONHEADS THINK THAT MAC-THAMHAIS MEANS SONOF THOMAS. FAIR ENOUGH; TO AN ENGLISH SPEAKER, THAMHAIS LOOKS A BIT LIKE THOMAS. BUT LETS DISECT' MACTHAMHAIS' AND PRONOUCE IT PROPERLY.
IT DOES NOT READ= MAC-TAM-IS
IN GAELIC THE 'TH' CAN BE PRONOUNCED 'T' OR; ARCHAICLY/ORIGINALLY,SILENT
THE 'MH' CAN BE 'V'- OR, WHEN IN LATIN FORM(1300-1600)'W'
THE S IS 'SH'



MY PASSPORT- BY LAW- HAS TO SHOW MY FULL AND PROPER NAME=
STIBHAIN MACTHAMHAIS nMACTHAMHAIS

PROPERLY AND EXACTLY PRONOUNCED= STEVEN MACAUSH nMACAUSH -BUT GENERALLY IN MODERN ARGYLL; STEVEN MCTAVISH nMCTAVISH. THERE IS NOT EVEN A SUGGESTION OF'THOMAS'