Author Topic: Customs and Traditions, Myths and Legends  (Read 151229 times)

Donna

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 409
Re: Customs and Traditions, Myths and Legends
« Reply #75 on: March 12, 2009, 12:32:15 AM »
Hey Stu,
Is that the end of the story  ???
I expected the Fox to have another trick up his furry little sleeve!

Donna
ANY DAY ABOVE GROUND IS A GOOD DAY !

Stirling Thompson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 978
Re: Customs and Traditions, Myths and Legends
« Reply #76 on: March 13, 2009, 10:17:56 AM »
a bit about the Scots language...

The Scots Leid, a Personal Keek
by rableather @ Scotland 2005 From the Hamei ldae mi website at http://www.rableather.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/index.html

"Scots:- The collection of dialects deriving from the distinctive Scottis Language which was the official Language of government and literature until the end of the 16th century." Definition supplied by Jim Allen Tutor Strathclyde University, "

When I was little, back in the days when everything was black and white, my mother would cuff my ear for using, what she called, slang. She called anything I said, that was not strictly Queen's English, 'slang'. She went further, she sent me to elocution before school once a week for a year.

Now come forward in time to till about ten years ago, and to the days of full colour. I was in the fourth and final year of my teaching course and it was elective time. I had chosen to do 'Teaching Scots' as an elective. I looked the course specifications over and over and decided this wasn't really the course for me. I went to see the tutor and explained, " Ah dinna think Ah can dae this. Ah canny speak aw word aw Scots."

That was the first time I actually saw someone literally fall off a chair laughing. I just stood there gobsmacked, hadn't a clue what he was laughing at. I had to wait until he recovered enough to explain it to me. You see while I can speak standard English, I wouldn't have been allowed into Jordanhill otherwise, I only do it naturally for four reasons:-
# I do it when I teach, unless I am teaching Scots
# I do it when I am on the phone, to a non Scot
# I do it when I am drunk.
# I do it when my anger has past the red of passion and turned icy white.

I took the man's class and learned many things including the fact that Scottis is a proper language and not a bastardisation of English. Old English and Scottis have a common root but the Wars of Independence forced the Scots to rename their language Scottis from Inglis. These same wars, and the continuing troubles between my country and its near neighbour made trade difficult. So Scotland developed many trading links with Europe.

Language of course is a living breathing thing so it changes otherwise it stagnates. We moved away from Inglis and its subsequent development. We adopted words like ashet, advocate and gigot, brought over from the continent through trading links. Vocabulary that simply has no meaning in English was common in Scotland. Scots, not Gaelic, was the language of Government here.

Politics once again impacts on on the language and the Union of Parliament sounded the death knell for Scottis. No longer the language of government it became second rate and it all but died as a written language.
"...the very stuff of history. It is through written documentation that we mainly perceive our past ....to forget the language is to court disaster."( Witherington DJ in McClure JD (no date) p9)

It did however continue on in the tongue but was frowned upon. The following is from a fictitious account, the book Docharty, by William McIlvanney. While fictitious in nature it is an echo of the nature of many experiences by Scots children educated pre 5-14.

"What's wrong with your face, Docherty?

Skint ma nose, sur.

How?

Ah fell an bumped ma heid in the sheuch, sur.

I beg your pardon?

Ah fell an bumped ma heid in the sheuch, sur.

I beg your pardon?

In the pause Conn understands the nature of the choice, tremblingly, compulsively, makes it.

Ah fell an bumped ma heid in the sheuch, sur.

The blow is instant. His ear seems to enlarge, is muffled in numbness. But it s only the dread of tears that hurts. Mr Pirrie distends on a lozenge of light which mustn't be allowed to break. It doesn't. Conn hasn't cried.

That, Docherty, is impertinence. You will translate, please, into the mother-tongue. "

I would argue with anyone who doesn't relate to this that they were either educated outside Scotland or in a school where the English language indoctrination was particularly effective. Its a bit like saying ' I have never had trouble using Scots notes in England'. Its part of the culture.

So where does the language stand today? According to Murison in SCOLA (1980) (p8) approximately one third of the vocabulary is lost from one generation to the next. He claims (and this claim is backed up by Aitken 1973 p58) that the language will extinct by the turn of the century. This is more particularly true for urban areas than rural.

I have hit the teaching profession fairly heavily in this look at Scottis and rightly so. But I remember vividly one on my introduction language lessons four years before the 'falling off the chair' incident. The lecturer, head of the Primary Education no less, stood up and stated.
"In France, French children study French literature.
In America , American children study American literature
In England, English children study English literature
In Scotland .......... its different"

In Scottish primary schools we study Language, not English. We teach Scots in the local dialect. That for me, is Lallands, but it could be Doric, or even Glaswegian, depends where you live.

I speak the language I learned from my grandmother and grandfather. I speak the language I learned in the playground. It is all I have of my heritage. I can't conjugate a Scots verb, but there is no one left to teach me how to speak that way. However what I have is genuine, and there is nothing false in it.

No it doesn't sound like that which was written by James VI, in the 17th century. Shakespeare was writing in the same period. I have never heard a living English person speak naturally, the same way Shakespeare wrote .

"...it is undeniable that Scots exploits the possibilities of phono aesthetic expression.... to an extent that has no paralleled in Western European Languages." McClure J D 1988 (p54)

I have had a great deal of trouble sticking to Queen's English writing this. Phrases like 'cuff around the ear' do not adequately express what I actually mean. I meant she " skelped ma lug" It encompasses the onomatopoeic qualities of the skelp while portraying the visual aspects of the lug. English, frankly doesn't have those qualities. I used the word 'gobsmacked' but thats no where near as effective as 'dumbfoonart'. I find I can more adequately express myself when speaking in Scots, but I have to revert to English to make myself understood.

I have been accused of speaking 'faux Scots'. I have answered that by explaining where Scots came from, where MY Scots came from and finally by showing that the language has developed. Can I suggest that had my accusers been more able to utilise, what for them is obviously a bastard language, they would not have had to revert to French to describe my Scots.

Oh and there was one more thing I learned in Jim Allen's class, there is no 'g' at the end of Scots verbs which in English would end in 'ing'. So its bletherin no blethering, loupin no louping, keekin no keeking. Yi' ve bin tellt noo!
Semper Fidelis! Semper Familia!
Stu

Thomas Thompson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 323
  • Deny Us Not!
Re: Customs and Traditions, Myths and Legends
« Reply #77 on: March 15, 2009, 12:42:18 PM »
Stu
   I don't think I have properly given you the thanks you deserve for all of your inputs.
     THANK YOU!!
tom

Stirling Thompson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 978
Re: Customs and Traditions, Myths and Legends
« Reply #78 on: March 15, 2009, 02:24:38 PM »
Tom,
Thanks for the kind words... here and elsewhere.
Semper Fidelis! Semper Familia!
Stu

Stirling Thompson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 978
Re: Customs and Traditions, Myths and Legends
« Reply #79 on: March 23, 2009, 12:07:15 PM »
Rob Roy MacGregor

The most famous MacGregor of all is, of course, Rob Roy, of the Glengyle branch (1671-1734). Rob Roy was a multi-talented man - a great swordsman and soldier (fighting alongside his father by the age of 18 against William of Orange), an astute businessman, and master of the highland "protection racket". That is, rather than just rustling cattle - the age-old highland way - Rob Roy discovered there was more money in "protecting" cattle for pay. Between 1689 and 1711, Rob Roy stayed at home (he was a loving family man) and prospered his business, increasing his lands and resources.

The legend of Rob Roy MacGregor grew out of his famous feud with the Duke of Montrose. As with all farmers and ranchers, Rob Roy found it difficult to lay hands on ready cash to expand his regular cattle business and turned to Montrose for a loan (or investment money). One of Rob Roy's employees made off with £1000 and Montrose, in his greed, brought charges of embezzlement against Rob hoping to gain his lands. Failing to answer the charge, Rob Roy was declared an outlaw and began his campaign of harassment against the Duke (rustling his cattle).

In 1715, despite his outlaw status, Rob Roy rallied the MacGregor clan and led them in battle against the English, making many successful raids. Afterwards, he was tried for treason and lived life on the run, being captured twice but making spectacular escapes both times. Finally, in 1725, he turned himself in and received a pardon from the king. He died quietly at home in 1734.

Ironically, Rob Roy's mother was a Campbell, and since the name MacGregor was proscribed by William of Orange, Rob Roy used the name Campbell at various times throughout his life and hid (with permission) on the Duke of Argyll's lands while an outlaw.
Semper Fidelis! Semper Familia!
Stu

Stirling Thompson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 978
Re: Customs and Traditions, Myths and Legends
« Reply #80 on: March 26, 2009, 10:20:49 AM »
A wee bit o Scottish trivia...

Scottish people are called Scots. Things from Scotland are called Scottish, not Scotch, which refers solely to the drink.

James Lind, born Edinburgh, Scotland, October 4, 1716. Established the curative effect of lemon juice on scurvy.

Duncan I was the King of Scotland until he was slain by his cousin, Macbeth, on August 15, 1057. This slaying was the basis for the famous Shakespeare play, "Macbeth."

John Hunter, born East Kilbride, Scotland, February 13, 1728. Wrote The Natural History of the Human Teeth and laid the foundations for dental anatomy and pathology.

The Ghost of Mary Queen of Scots haunts the Talbot Hotel. Her Ghostly figure has been seen walking down the beautiful oak staircase, which was brought from the ruins at Fotheringhay, where she was executed.

Edward I (1272-1307)--think "Long Shanks" in Brave Heart--was so wrapped up in his desire to subdue Scotland that on his death bed he extracted a promise from his son: When Scotland was attacked, his body was to go with the army. After Edward died his body was preserved in oiled linen. The promise was kept for the next two hundred years, his large tomb in Westminister Abbey being opened again and again.

Scotch Tape' is a result of the 3M company's decision to put adhesive only on the edges of its tape. The tape did not work properly and among the returns was the complaint that the company should take back its "Scotch Tape". A reference to the supposed stinginess of Scots people.

The Scots believed in "Samhanach", a goblin who came out only on Samhain and stole children.

Margaret the wife of Malcolm III (King of Scotland) died on November 16, 1093 . She was later declared a saint. To this day in Scotland, the grace cup is called St. Margaret's blessing.

The power of Edgar "the Peaceful" was such that as a sign of his power, Edward was rowed down the River Dee with the oars manned by 8 Kings of tributary kingdoms.

There are three Scottish place names which contain only two letters-Oa, Ae, and Bu.

The Lincoln Monument in Edinburgh's Old Carlton Cemetery was the first statue of an American president to be constructed outside the US.

Carrying a bagpipe was considered to be as much a crime as carrying arms during the Jacobite rebellion, it was classified an "instrument of war"

Loch Lomond is Britain's' largest fresh water lake, 23 miles long and one and a half to five miles wide. There are 24 islands on it.

In 1969 the U.S. astronaut Alan Bean, an American Scot carried a square metre of the MacBeath (MacBean) tartan with him on his historic Apollo XII space mission to the moon.

The Guinness Book of Records shows that the tallest Scotsman and the tallest "true" giant was Angus Macaskill. Born on the island of Berneray off the island of Harris in 1825, Macaskill was 7ft 9in (2.36m) tall. He was also strong, reputedly able to lift a hundredweight (50kg) with two fingers and hold it at arms length for ten minutes. He died on Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia, in 1863. A cairn on Berneray commemorates him.

Before the 19th century tartans were not used in the identification of clans in Scotland. The plant badge that the men wore would tell the Scotsman's clan loyalties.

Scotland is the only country in Europe that the Romans could not conquer.

The Scots were the tallest race in Europe, according to the 1909 Census. But the carnage of WW1 changed that. By the 1930s, the average height of men in Scotland had been reduced by 9 inches.

The blue paint that Pictish, and later the Scottish warriors wore in battle was a hallocinogen. It was was the mold from rye.

The first kilts were worn by the Irish not the Scottish. However, many of the Irish moved to Scotland (Alba) and they brought their clothing with them.

Scotland is the only country in the world. that Coca cola is not the best selling soft drink. Irn Bru made by the Barr Company i s the best selling soft drink.

Sheep theft is still legally a hangable offence in Scotland.

There are more pipe bands in America than in Scotland.

The word "whisky" or "whiskey" is derived from the Gaelic uisge breatha meaning "water of life."

The original name of Scotland was Caledonia.
Semper Fidelis! Semper Familia!
Stu

Michael Thompson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 379
  • Unitas et Probitas
    • Thompson Family Web Site
Re: Customs and Traditions, Myths and Legends
« Reply #81 on: March 26, 2009, 09:50:06 PM »
Fascinating stuff Stu. I knew about some of them, but a few are new to me.

Scotch Tape' is a result of the 3M company's decision to put adhesive only on the edges of its tape. The tape did not work properly and among the returns was the complaint that the company should take back its "Scotch Tape". A reference to the supposed stinginess of Scots people.

I always heard it was because of the plaid design on the package, but maybe that was a later addition?

Quote
The Scots believed in "Samhanach", a goblin who came out only on Samhain and stole children.

Most of the Celtic people believe that on Samhain (pronounced Sow-inn) the barrier between our world and the next or "otherworld" is the thinnest, and that it becomes possible for those from the otherworld to pass over to ours. Never knew they stole children though.

Quote
Carrying a bagpipe was considered to be as much a crime as carrying arms during the Jacobite rebellion, it was classified an "instrument of war"

There's some controversy over this one, at least in Ireland, where the same tradition is known. The name for the Great Highland Bagpipes in Irish is Piob Mhor, meaning Great Pipes. I imagine it's similar in Scots Gaelic. It's pronounced Peeb Wohr, and is sometimes referred to in English as War Pipes. They were sometimes considered a weapon of war by the English, as they could be used to stir up nationalist sentiment, but there's speculation as to whether the name comes from that or from the Gaelic words.

Quote
Loch Lomond is Britain's' largest fresh water lake, 23 miles long and one and a half to five miles wide. There are 24 islands on it.

Been there, it's a lovely place. However, we were told there's only one actual lake in Scotland, Lake Menteith. All other inland bodies of fresh water are lochs, not lakes. Menteith gets the distinction of being the only lake because of an error in spelling by an English mapmaker, who wrote it down wrong, and his mistake was perpetuated on maps of Scotland since then. Take a look at a map today and you'll see that this has some basis in fact, as Menteith is labeled as a lake, while Lomond, and others are all called Lochs. Interesting speculation at least.

Quote
Before the 19th century tartans were not used in the identification of clans in Scotland. The plant badge that the men wore would tell the Scotsman's clan loyalties.

I've not only heard that, I've read it in a fairly authoritative account, namely the book "So You're Going to Wear the Kilt" http://www.amazon.com/So-Youre-Going-Wear-Kilt/dp/185217126X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238127576&sr=8-1by J. Charles Thompson (a relative no less!). Thompson's story is that the modern system of clan tartans was developed by cloth merchants, who wanted to create a market for their wares by capitalizing on family and national pride. They supposedly invented the whole story of each clan using native plants and therefore having different colors, and the idea that the natural plant coloring agents would fade over the years, creating the "ancient" versions of tartans, sometimes known as "muted."

That brings up the question though, what is the plant badge for Thompson? I've seen the Campbells wearing something in their bonnets, but I don't know what ours is.

Quote
Scotland is the only country in Europe that the Romans could not conquer.

Depends on how you define "could not." Ireland was never conquered by the Romans either, basically because by the time imperial expansion got that far West, the Vandals and Visigoths were harassing the Roman armies closer to home, and the Empire collapsed before they made a determined foothold there.

They did however, make significant inroads into what is today Britain. In the late fourth century and early fifth century when a young man named Maewyn Succat was growing up in western Britain, near the border between modern Wales and Scotland. His father was an official of the local branch of the Roman government. They may not have conquered Scotland as a nation, but they certainly had a major presence in the area.

Quote
The blue paint that Pictish, and later the Scottish warriors wore in battle was a hallocinogen. It was was the mold from rye.

That explains a lot.  :D

Quote
The first kilts were worn by the Irish not the Scottish. However, many of the Irish moved to Scotland (Alba) and they brought their clothing with them.

Thanks. That gives me a good answer to my Irish friends who wonder when I wear the kilt to Irish events. It also jibes with the fact that Scotland was so named by the Romans, because the Scotti lived there. Scotti was the Roman name for the Irish people, and some of them had emigrated to what is now Scotland. Before that, as you point out, it was called Alba.

Quote
Scotland is the only country in the world. that Coca cola is not the best selling soft drink. Irn Bru made by the Barr Company is the best selling soft drink.

Fine stuff it is too. Wish we had something similar in the US. It is definitely a source of Scottish national pride though, and widely available around the country.

Quote
The word "whisky" or "whiskey" is derived from the Gaelic uisge breatha meaning "water of life."

It's Bheatha, with no "r" but yes, it does seem to be the source of the word whiskey in its various forms around the world. In Irish, it's pronounced Eeshka Bahah or Eeshka Vahah. Again, probably similar in Scots Gaelic, though I'm not familiar with pronunciation of Scots Gaelic, so I can only presume it's similar.

Quote
The original name of Scotland was Caledonia.

Didn't know that, but it explains the beautiful song "Caledonia" http://www.amazon.com/Caledonia/dp/B001HE0Y3Q/ref=sr_f2_1?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1238129054&sr=102-1

Great post Stu. Really piqued my interest. Does it show?

The Reivers Ride Again!

Donna

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 409
Re: Customs and Traditions, Myths and Legends
« Reply #82 on: March 26, 2009, 11:53:27 PM »
Thank you Stu   :-*

Donna
ANY DAY ABOVE GROUND IS A GOOD DAY !

Beverly Kohn(Thompson)

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 52
Re: Customs and Traditions, Myths and Legends
« Reply #83 on: March 27, 2009, 07:10:54 AM »
  Hey Michael! I loved your comments , here's a little more on Samhain.
The Celts had 2 most magical days of the year,Beltaine (1st of May) and Samhian(1st of Nov.)-Halloween to us. The in-between times. The place or time between night and day,summer and winter,the shoreline of lakes and rivers,bridges, etc. It was a time of fairies, ghosts, demons and witches. Samhain is their night of release from the underworld. Many people lit bonfires  and torches to keep away spirits-(jack-o-lanterns). It was also a time to honor the dead.
Sir Walter Scott wrote:
On Hallowmas Eve, ere ye boune to rest,
Ever beware that your couch be blest;
Sign it with the cross and sain it with bread,
sing the Ave and the creed.
For on Hallowmas Eve,the night Hag shall ride,
and her nine-fold sweeping on by her side;
whether the wind sing lowly or loud,
Stealing through moonshine or swathed in cloud.
He that dare sit in St. Swithin's chair,
when the night
hag wings the troubled air,
Questions three, when he speaks the spell,
He must ask and she must tell.

For us ghost hunters 3:00 a.m. is the best time to communicate with spirits, we call it dead time, seems to work!  Just a little info on Samhian, there's always more if anyone is interested.
        Bev

Pamela K. Thompson

  • Core
  • *
  • Posts: 90
Re: Customs and Traditions, Myths and Legends
« Reply #84 on: March 27, 2009, 08:08:46 AM »
Stu, Michael, and Beverly..... Tell us more! My daughter Katey will love this stuff! One day she will post again but you'll have to forgive her for now as she is busy turning 14! Today is her birthday. :) She's really showing an interest and on her own has found some contemporary Celtic, Gaelic, bands and shared their music with us. Some of them are pretty darn good. She's even attempted to play "Black Velvet Band" on her guitar. She has friends who are German and Italian descent one a 2nd gen Italian and has really identified with the fact that the Romans were unable to "subdue" the Scots. (Fiercely independant we are and we don't identify with that at all of course! :D) I am learning a lot and hope to be able to contribute as well. Beverly, please share more.  Karma

Beverly Kohn(Thompson)

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 52
Re: Customs and Traditions, Myths and Legends
« Reply #85 on: March 27, 2009, 11:08:39 AM »
    Thank you Pamela, I will send more on Samhain later on when I get a minute. Tell Katie if she likes scottish battle music, drums and pipes, we in the clan have a favorite band, Albannach. They really put a new spin on it, kind of a modern rock'n roll twist, They are a blast to watch and see in person. A few of us ladies have a little crush on Jamesie he's the one with long hair and plays bass drum. You can google them at Albannach,scottish band and hear their music or watch videos, check them out.
    yours in family and spirit
            Bev

Beverly Kohn(Thompson)

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 52
Re: Customs and Traditions, Myths and Legends
« Reply #86 on: March 27, 2009, 12:49:55 PM »
 I guess I should start this journey with a little history of the Celts in Scotland. About 10,000 years ago the North of Europe was covered in ice; when it melted the immigration to the British Isles started. Tribes from Galia and Belgium came to Scotland. In the year 1,000 b.c. the Celts were one of the most important civilizations in Europe. They were organized in tribes and their language changed regionally. They were farmers,they worked in metals like bronze and practiced Druidism.
    The Celts choose their own Chiefs. Their religion was based on the adoration of the three elements; Sun,Water,Earth. They wore metal rings around their necks to symbolize their authority. They had lots of Celtic knots. They drew animals not humans. The circle is the supreme Celtic symbol and represents the Sun, the life source. In the 5th century when Christianity came to Scotland, the Celtic circle and the cross were put together and the Celtic Cross was created.
     Around 500 b.c. the Celtic culture was well established in Scotland. The Picts or Caledonians, called that by Romans because they tatooed their bodies and painted their faces dark blue before going to war,(like William Wallace in the movie!),occupied the north of Scotland and the South of what is today Edinburgh and Glasgow,were the British tribes. The Romans could not occupy the area of Edinburgh and Glasgow so they built Antonia Wall to divide the territory they could not control,the Caledonian territory. The famous Adrians Wall in the north of England was the northern boundary of the Roman territroy.
 I will take it from here to the myths that came from this time at a later time I hope you don't think I'm rambling!  :-\
      Bev

Paula Cash Womack

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
Re: Customs and Traditions, Myths and Legends
« Reply #87 on: March 27, 2009, 01:17:38 PM »
Thank you all for the historical facts and trivia.
I really appreciate your research.
It brings so many things I have heard to life.

Thank you again.
Paula

Michael Thompson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 379
  • Unitas et Probitas
    • Thompson Family Web Site
Re: Customs and Traditions, Myths and Legends
« Reply #88 on: March 27, 2009, 09:59:56 PM »
Tell Katie if she likes scottish battle music, drums and pipes, we in the clan have a favorite band, Albannach. They really put a new spin on it, kind of a modern rock'n roll twist, They are a blast to watch and see in person.

They certainly are a blast, especially in person. We saw them at Estes Park last year.  Check these out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY_UqOZE1Kg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LYl5fOWqy4
The Reivers Ride Again!

Pamela K. Thompson

  • Core
  • *
  • Posts: 90
Re: Customs and Traditions, Myths and Legends
« Reply #89 on: March 29, 2009, 10:10:48 AM »
No you are not rambling! Keep it coming! I will now check out Albannach from Michaels links! :) Karma