Scotch or Scot

[Jimmie]

I keep seeing the terms Scotch- Irish and Scot-Irish  on this site. Which is correct? It seems to me that if Scotch were correct then we would have decended from Scotchland. I have spoken with other Scotland decendants who have taken umbrage to being called "Scotch". I have heard them say "Scotch is a whiskey" and that they were Scot. I am of the opinion that the correct term is Scot. Give me some help.  Jimmie

[Ernest Thompson]

My Great-Uncle always gave the same response when asked if he were Scotch;
NO DEAR, ONLY HALF. THE OTHER HALF IS WATER !!

[Graham Thompson]

Well Scotch and Scotch Whiskey are 2 different drinks. I was corrected at a bar when I asked for a scotch and I asked if they had Black Bush. Which I thought was a Scotch. But really its a Scotch Whiskey. So dont be confused by the two, because there plenty different

[Mary]

Hi Jimmie -

It SHOULD be Scots-Irish.  Generally those whose ancestors were from Scotland and emigrated to Ireland ......a term used frequently in the US, but I don't know if it's common elsewhere. Many of us with Scottish ancestors (mine are Gordons and Thompsons) have to trace them back to Ireland first and THEN to Scotland.  There were several waves of emigration from Scotland to Ireland - many Thompsons went during the lowland clearances (you don't hear much about them - you always hear about the highland clearances - but they were much more brutal in the lowlands). There were/are large communities of Scots-Irish in the Carolinas, Virginia, and Pennsylvania.

Mary

[Jimmie]

Thank you Mary, for the clarification. Scots-Irish is really what I suspected to be correct.




                                                                                                            Jim

[Michael Thompson]

Looks like the clarification needs a bit of clarifying.

First of all, a person from Scotland is a Scot. Scotch is a distilled beverage made according to law and ancient custom. Our ancestors are Scottish, not Scotch, unless they're made of barley and have been distilled.

Secondly, Scotch Whisky has no "e" in it. The distillers are quite proud of that distinction. Whiskey is spelled with an "e" is virtually every other part of the world, but I guess the Scots are too cheap to buy a vowel.

Thirdly, Black Bush is made by the Bushmills Distillery in Ireland. That makes it an Irish Whiskey, not Scotch Whisky at all. Scotch whisky is double distilled, normally using peated malt. Irish whiskey is triple distilled and normally uses unpeated malt. There are a couple of exceptions, such as Connemara whiskey, made by the Cooley distillery, but the majority of Irish whiskies are made by either Bushmills or Jamesons.

Used to be a funny story about that. Bushmills is in the North and favored by Protestants, while Jamesons is in the south and popular among Catholics. Not too long ago they were both owned by Pernod-Ricker, a French company. Those "in the know" would wink and snicker at both the Catholics and the Protestants giving their money to the French and thinking they were being patriotic.

See, sometimes it pays to have an Irishman and a whiskey/whisky drinker in the family.

[Jimmie]

Thanks Michael, your clarification makes this Scot wish he could still drink "Scotch Whisky"

                                                                                                                        Jim

[Mary]

".....they're not Scotch unless they're made of barley and have been distilled."   I'm not sure, but I think that might clarify some of the 'missing links' in my family   You know...the black sheep thing???

LOVED the Scots being too cheap to buy an "e" for their "whisky."  My mother (who was Welsh) always said the Welsh were even tighter with a penny than the Scots. Couldn't prove it either way in my family - seems like they must have been competing in my youth to see which side of the family could be the more frugal - the Welsh or the Scots! Here I thought we were just poor!   

Mary

[Michael Thompson]

Reminds me of a "Toast to the Celtic Nations" that my son likes to give:

Here's to the Scots, who keep the Sabbath, and everything else they can get their hands on.
Here's to the Welsh, who pray on the Sabbath, and on their neighbors the rest of the week.
Here's to the Irish, who don't know what they want, but will fight anyone to the death over it.
And here's to the English, though only marginally Celtic, who call themselves a self-made nation, thus absolving the almighty of any responsibility.

[Pamela K. Thompson]

Michael, I love that toast, and if I can ever tip a wee one back again, I'll use it! I, like Mary got a big over the vowel thingy! And, having been reared in the Ozarks, another Scots-Irish stronghold, I suspect my "Black sheep" may have been distilled of corn.  Karma

[Michael Thompson]

LOVED the Scots being too cheap to buy an "e" for their "whisky."  My mother (who was Welsh) always said the Welsh were even tighter with a penny than the Scots. Couldn't prove it either way in my family - seems like they must have been competing in my youth to see which side of the family could be the more frugal - the Welsh or the Scots! Here I thought we were just poor! 

You probably got something there Mary. Ever notice how the Welsh language seems to have no vowels? Any fan of the Wheel of Fortune game show know that consonants pay you, but you have to buy vowels. The Welsh nation can't even afford different last names. The whole country has only a dozen or so. My Welsh ancestors were Penny, which is rare; most of the Welsh people being named Williams or Jones, like William Jones and John Williams. There are a few others, but not many. That's why the Welsh nickname each other, like Williams the School, or Jones the sheep. I think the latter speaks of occupation, not predeliction, since it's usually the Scots who are known for their romantic involvement with sheep.

If you ever get a chance to see a movie called "The Englishman who went up a hill but came down a mountain" take it. It's a lovely portrayal of Welsh life in the 1920s, including their attitude toward the English. Colm Meaney plays a character called Morgan the Goat. He and lots of children in the village shared the common feature of red hair.

We have a Welshman named Roberts who comes in our local pub. We call him Roberts the gas, because he's an anesthesiologist. It can be lots of fun.