Author Topic: John Thomson of Charleton  (Read 3200 times)

Allan Thomson

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John Thomson of Charleton
« on: January 07, 2010, 01:47:39 PM »
JOHN THOMSON OF CHARLETON (FIFE, SCOTLAND)

John Thomson of Charleton was granted arms by the Court of the Lord Lyon in 1740.  He married Margaret Paterson, daughter of John Paterson of Prestonhall and Grizel St. Clair, in 1744.  They had one child.  

ARMS:  Argent, a stag's head cabossed Proper, attired with ten tynes Gules, on a chief engrailed of the last, three mascles Or.  CREST:  A stag's head erased Proper.  MOTTO:  Honestie is the best policy

DESCENT OF ARMS:
John and Margaret had one child - Grizel Maria Thomson of Charleton.  Grizel as the only child of John Thomson of Charleton inherited the arms.  

Grizel Thomson of Charleton married Colonel John Anstruther in Dec 1774.  They had one son John Anstruther-Thomson.   The Thomson arms were quartered as follows:

ARMS:..Quarterly, 1st and 4th, Argent (silver), a stag's head cabossed Proper (natural color), attired with ten tynes Gules (red), on a chief engrailed of the last  (i.e., red), three mascles Or (gold) for THOMSON;  2nd and 3rd, Argent (silver), three piles Sable (black), for ANSTRUTHER.

The arms may yet be in use by the Anstruther-Thomson family of which there are existing heirs.  However it appears that the family may have dropped THOMSON from the name and reverted to Anstruther.

Allan Thomson
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 01:53:39 PM by Allan Thomson »

Allan Thomson

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Re: John Thomson of Charleton
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2010, 02:29:06 AM »
Below is a transcript from the Register.

Grant of Arms to: JOHN THOMSON of CHARLETON 2 July 1740.
Quote
John Thomson of Charleton Esq Bears Argent a stag’s head cabossed proper attired with ten tynes Gules on a chief engrailed of the last three mascles Or.  Crest a Stags head erased proper.  Motto Honestie is Best Policy.

Allan Thomson


Mary

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Re: John Thomson of Charleton
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2010, 07:49:43 AM »
So, what happens if the family DID drop the Thomson from the name but still hold the arms.....because "Thomson" is no longer part of the family surname, they wouldn't qualify as a Thomson armiger any longer? How does that work?

Also, what happens if the descendant is a daughter - she marries and now her last name is changed. To keep the arms, does her husband have to change his name to hers?

Thanks - this is most interesting!

Allan Thomson

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Re: John Thomson of Charleton
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2010, 10:32:51 AM »
Hi Mary

I will break this down into two questions and answer it as best I can.

Mary Thompson posted:
Quote
So, what happens if the family DID drop the Thomson from the name but still hold the arms.....because "Thomson" is no longer part of the family surname, they wouldn't qualify as a Thomson armiger any longer? How does that work?

As I understand it the Thomson arms would become forfeit if the Thomson name was dropped.  There are complex rules governing how arms are passed from one person to the next but it does seem to depend on 'name' and 'arms' remaining linked

Mary Thompson posted
Quote
Also, what happens if the descendant is a daughter - she marries and now her last name is changed. To keep the arms, does her husband have to change his name to hers?

A daughter of an armiger (if the only child) is treated as a heraldic heiress.  In effect the arms would pass to her in the same way as  land or estates etc.  If she marries a gentleman who is also an armiger then the arms she inherited from her father are often joined with his (picture a shield split down the middle with a different set of arms on either side).  I gather these arms would then pass to her offspring who might choose to use their fathers arms alone or divided with their mothers.
As regards the change of name - I think you hit it on the head - the husband can take her name and hence they would share her coat of arms.  If she decides to take his name then she probably enjoys some rights to the arms through her lifetime but I imagine they would not then pass to her offspring.

I have been interested in this subject (heraldry) for many years but it is a very complex system with lots of ancient customs and rules.  I would describe myself as an enthusiast NOT an expert and as such I apologise for any errors.

Allan Thomson
   

Allan Thomson

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Re: John Thomson of Charleton
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2010, 10:11:24 AM »
A search of the Scottish index of Wills and Testaments reveals the following:

The testament, dative and inventory of John Thomson Esq of Charletown, Parish of Kilconquhar 3 Oct and 7th November 1787 are available via St Andrews Commissary Court are available online via http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

The testament, dative and inventory of Philip Thomson Residing at Charleton, Parish of Kilconquhar 27 July 1796 are available via St Andrews Commissary Court are available online via http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

The first entry almost certainly relates to John Thomson of Charleton about whom this thread was started.  I do wonder if there was any family link between John and Philip...

Allan Thomson
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 08:34:40 PM by Forum_mgr »