Author Topic: Boars head crest  (Read 9519 times)

Danny Thompson

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Boars head crest
« on: May 11, 2010, 03:49:21 AM »
I was just reading in my book on Scottish tartans and found the boars head is the Campbells crest badge..i was also surfin the net and
looked on the mctavish web site...this also contained the boars head as a crest.
there was a Thompson crest on one of the sites i found, interesting erhh?

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Thomas Thompson

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Re: Boars head crest
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2010, 09:22:02 AM »
Danny
  I am interested in the Thomson Crest you found. I don't remember ever seeing it before. If you have the time could you do more research on the history and the family that achieved the recognition?
Tom

Scott Thomson

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Re: Boars head crest
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2010, 01:39:37 PM »
I believe that crest badge is taken from the arms of James Thomson of Wester Bogie the motto means "I Conquer By Patience"

Scott.

Danny Thompson

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Re: Boars head crest
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2010, 08:15:13 AM »
take a look http://www.rowandisplays.com/acatalog/Thompson-Scottish-Clan.html
the design was one that this site uses for a shield for the Thompson clan.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 08:17:06 AM by Danny Thompson »
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Mary

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Re: Boars head crest
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2010, 02:27:50 PM »
The argent and azure on the wreath would be correct for a Thom(p)son crest (wreath, I believe?)..... but I've never seen the rest of the design elsewhere. The most common was the stag ...with various color variations, but a stag. What is the green?? Something from his land, possibly? I haven't a clue.

Scott --- can you explain your arms? Yours incorporate the stag and a lion? Educate us, please!

Also, how long did it take you to get your arms from the time you submitted the application and genealogy info?

Thanks!
Mary

Scott Thomson

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Re: Boars head crest
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2010, 06:48:02 PM »
Hi Mary,

The colours of the crest wreath and mantle are dependant on what the colours on the shield are, they are always the main metal, followed by the main colour. i.e

The main metal used on my shield is Argent(silver/white)
The main colour used is Azure(blue)

so my crest wreath is white followed by blue.

Since most Thomson arms are derived from the Thomson of that Ilk arms they naturally tend to use those colours the most, but they certainly don't have to.

If you take a look at Alan Thomsons arms in this forum, his shield is mainly white and red, so his wreath is white/red. And they most definitely look like "Thomson" arms.

The Stags head is the most common element on Thomson shields, but is rarely if ever used in the crest. The Thomson of Wester Bogie crest above is a palm leaf, but his shield displays the Stag as usual.

The three most common elements of Thomson shields are:

Stags Head of ten tynes
Mullets (stars)
Cross-crosslett fitchee

My shield contains the Stag of ten tynes as the main charge or element. In chief(top of the shield) is a lion Passant Guardant, The front half is Or(gold/yellow) the back half is Argent(silver/white),this is taken from the arms of The chief of the Irish clan O'Brien as my mother's maiden name is O'Brien. Between the antlers of the stag is a millrind, this was to symbolised that my late father had worked as a millright.

For my crest I chose an upright arm wearing the Hunting Thomson tartan holding aloft a red cross-crosslett fitchee. I chose the cross both for it's Thomson association and because it is a very common charge used is arms in Aberdeenshire, where my family are from.

My arms were granted in 1992, and I think from my application submission, until I received my Grant of Arms was about 12 months. 

Scott.




Mary

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Re: Boars head crest
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2010, 10:45:56 AM »
Hi Scott -

GREAT explanation of your (and common) Thomson arms. I'm afraid we are woefully ignorant re: arms over here, but we need to learn more!

So, when you applied for your arms, you were able to specify what you wanted? Or did you have to have them already drawn up?  It's our understanding that Lyon makes final determination - but obviously you got what you wanted (lion and millrind). So you get your grant of arms and then have them actually drawn??? 

Sorry - this is all really new turf and your explanations are very helpful.......


Scott Thomson

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Re: Boars head crest
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2010, 06:00:04 PM »
Hello again Mary,

When you first send in your application you send it to the Lyon Clerk, All preliminary business of your matriculation is done through her. It is the Lyon Clerk who will check you application and scrutinize the documents that you send.

You have to send a covering letter with your application stating if you have any particular suggestions, especially in regard to crest and motto, as these are regarded as very personal to your arms. I was told that The Lord Lyon is happy to listen to any ideas you have, and that he will advise you on the best course to take.

Only after the Lyon Clerk is satisfied that all is in order with your documentation and application will your petition be placed before Lyon.

The Lord Lyon will write to you noting any suggestions you had and will describe to you what he has come up with as a design for your arms for your consideration.

Please note at no point in this process is there any drawings of arms shown to you, as it is the Blazon of arms that is considered important, not the actual drawing, so it helps if you have a little understanding of the language used, although Lyon does try to describe it in plain English too.

At this point if you are unhappy with the design or unsure of anything Lyon will advise you and amend the the design as appropriate. Lyon of course has final say.

Once you are happy with the design as described, the Lord Lyon will sign off on your petition and have the Lyon Clerk send you out a copy of the text of your Letters Patent for you to agree to.

Once agreed your letters patent will be sent to the Court painter for your Grant of Arms to be painted up on vellum, with a painting of your  Coat of Arms also included.

Personally I only made a suggestion on what I wanted for crest and motto, I decided to leave the actual design and colours of the shield up to the Lord Lyon to give him as much scope as possible in their design, I knew if didn't like them Lyon would consider any further suggestions I had. I didn't need to have any amendments to Lyon's original design as what he came up with was absolutely perfect for me.

Lyon suggested the Stag as the main element as "most appropriate to Thomson", and it was also Lyon who suggested the use of the O'Brien Lion and the millrind.

I couldn't have been happier with the service of everybody at Lyon Court.

Hope this helps.

Feel free to ask any more questions, I'm happy to answer

Scott.

Mary

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Re: Boars head crest
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2010, 07:32:05 PM »
Ahhhhhhh...........you are a treasure! Your explanations are so clear --- sometimes, reading about heraldry (I am a member of the Heraldry-Scotland forum) is waaaaaaaaaaay above my head!

Stand by............I'm sure we'll come up with more questions! :)

Thanks....I'm so glad you're here!

Thomas B. Thompson

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Re: Boars head crest
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2011, 06:48:28 PM »
Scott,
Would you mind explaining what type documentation is required when submitting an application to
Lyon Clerk ?

Tom Thompson (Indiana)


Scott Thomson

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Re: Boars head crest
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2011, 01:04:26 PM »
All you need is the documentation that proves your descent from the people you name as ancestors in your petition, the more generations you go back, obviously the more paperwork you will need. Generally this is just birth and marriage certificates. At the time I went back as far as my great grandfathers, as that was all I really knew. If I was doing it today I could prove back to the late 18th century.

Scott