Author Topic: Levi Thompson b. 1834ish lived in Alexandria Indiana..brick wall.  (Read 26631 times)

Thomas Thompson

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Re: Levi Thompson b. 1834ish lived in Alexandria Indiana..brick wall.
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2010, 07:30:35 PM »
Hi Mike
   I have a question about your comment I copied below:
[One thing I found disconcerting when I asked some of the MacTavish crowd about their DNA was the implication that DNA proves Thompson is MacTavish (something they still seem to hold to on their facebook site). That's a position I don't think even their Chief supports, given articles I saw on electric Scotland. I'm positive some MacTavish's became Thompsons, why dispute it? ]
   I also noted a similar thought train on your T hunt blog.(nice blog).
  Over the past three years I have been searching the Scottish records for information on any all all Thom's. I know that Black and the MacT's both say that many of the MacT changed their names to Thomson, but I can not find any facts or  records of actual name changes. In all of the Argyle parishes I found a single, 1803, entry showing a MacTavish changing his name to Thomson. However, I did find several Thomson's living as a Sept of the Cam[bell family (Auchenbrack). Later at one of the Games, I had a chance meeting with the past President of Clan Campbell USA (C. Thomson) of CA. He was  very  knowledgeable about his Scottish ancestors and their interactions with the Campbell's. Based on his account and verified by a couple of other sources I am satisfied that in that limited local there were Scottish Thomsons and they were a Sept of the Campbell family. At some future date I hope we can see their DNA test results.
  If you know of any  Thomson/MacT DNA results or even any 16th-17th century Thomson's associated with the MacT's I would really like to know about them for our records.
Tom
 

uneven

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Re: Levi Thompson b. 1834ish lived in Alexandria Indiana..brick wall.
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2010, 10:06:41 PM »
Here is some text from the info section of the Clan MacTavish facebook page:
--------
If your last name or the maiden name of someone in your family line is MacTavish, Thompson, Thomson, Cash, Kash, MacCamish, MacCash, MacCavish, MacComb, MacCombie, MacComich, MacComish, MaComie, Macomie, MacCosh, MacLaws, MacElhose, MacLehose, MacTavish, McTavish, Mactavish, Mactavis, M'Tavish, MacTeague, MacThomas, Stephens, Stephenson, Stevens, Stevenson, Tavish, Tawesson, Teague, Thom, Thomas, Thomason, Thomasson, Tod, or Todd, and all variant spellings you are welcome to join us in celebrating our shared Scottish Highlands heritage.

For those of you interested in DNA. The DNA has been decoded for almost all the Clans. MacTavish and Thompson have the same DNA. Thus supporting the fact that MacTavish and Thompson ARE THE SAME. It has also proven that the MacTavish and the Campbell are in NO WAY related.
-----------

At this point if you're me, then you're wondering "why are there 0 Mactavish's and 2 or 3 Campbells showing in my distant matches?" and what's "The DNA" for a clan?

I just tried to go look at the "proof" again. Their forum keeps asking me to log in and I can't see the thread anymore. It was this odd listing of some modals for clan Donald and others including Campbell. Along with Mactavish. These were 12 or 25 marker modals. It was from the early days of DNA testing. Wish I could get my hands on that again. Very frustrating! It was so unhelpful I just quit talking to them.

They're always "on message". It's creepy. On their facebook page, I felt like they were actively steering people away from DNA as a tool for genealogy. It was as if they were saying "MacTavish is Thompson so don't worry about looking anything up for yourself" (insert Jedi mindtrick wave). In fact that's the reason they gave me the link to their forum, because a member was talking with me about signing up for DNA testing. They interjected with the sales pitch and I got the hint.

Here's that forum link. Doesn't work for me anymore. http://www.clanmactavish.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=871

Anyway, my DNA looked more like Clan Donald than MacTavish. So much so that I began looking at their DNA project!

I remember thinking at the time, well it's nice for them that they found a Thompson who matches up with a MacTavish. I'm not that Thompson.

So that's why I agree with you on questioning the use of DNA as a proof of clan membership. DNA is a double edged sword. If you were clan MacTavish, on some minor level you might have DNA "proof" that a MacTavish and a Thompson are related and you publish that. Then someone like me comes along with a few hundred other "snowflakes" and you start to realize that not even all the Thompsons are related.

Kinship has never required a bloodline. Having read a few things online about the Clan system and the practice of taking the clan's name upon entry. I could acknowledge the remote possibility that MacTavish, or MacThomas or any other person really might pick Thom(p)son. To me, although unorganized, we appear to be the Dominant Thom family in northern Britain. Numbers are on our side.

Here in the U.S. German Thomsens changed their names to Thompson. It's just easier to get along when you're apart of the larger group.

I've read somewhere that the MacTavish clan says they changed their name to Thompson because of retribution. If that were the case then, it would only apply to a few individuals because there are still MacTavish's in existence. Also, it seems to me that that particular game only works if you're joining a larger group of existing Thompsons. Otherwise, who are you blending in with? Considering DNA for all Thompsons only hurts their case further.

By the way, I think I'm having some kind of Matrix moment because reality has remade itself. Not only can I not view the DNA forum post but the electric scotland page I link to in my blog: http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/stoz/thomson2.html seems to be totally missing the information, I believe from Steven MacTavish posted below his father's letter, where he acknowledges that not all Thompsons are related.
Mike Thompson from Michigan..then Indiana..then Pennsylvania and further...probably somewhere there are sheep. Call me Legion for I am many.

uneven

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Re: Levi Thompson b. 1834ish lived in Alexandria Indiana..brick wall.
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2010, 11:22:20 PM »
Oh! I forgot to say. I have no proof that any MacTavish changed their name to Thompson. I also have no proof that they didn't. I'm absolutely certain that somewhere someone will be a Thompson and be a genetic match in some range for a MacTavish. I can't dispute that. Why try?

Along those lines, if you were to tell me that several families named Lee in Hong Kong changed their name to Thompson in order to fit in, gain better employment, have opportunties during British rule...I'd only be able to agree with you. It's your family man, shout it out to the world! I have no reason to dispute it. Now if you tell me that all Thompsons are Lees based on that...then, well I have to be skeptical because nothing is ever all anything.

I think MacTavish has done enough on it's own to disprove it's case by using blanket statements trying to claim all Thom(p)sons and drawing some line between them and Thomsons..splitting them with MacThomas.

There again, if you were to tell me that all Thomsons are MacThomas then I have to be skeptical. Are some Thomsons MacThomas? Absolutely.

Are some Thompsons Thomsons? You'd be insane not to recognize that. All? nope, I can't do it. I just can't. Some, absolutely! Most, probably. All...

Now, having said all that, I can really get behind the "p or not to p" because it just makes sense. I've seen examples of it in census records and in my other families. It's a simple spelling change. Happens all the time. Who cares if the court clerk puts a "p" in your name? All you want is to avoid a noose!

My great grandfather is Lloyd Seelye. He spells his name two different ways. Seely and Seelye. From him on it's spelled Seelye. As you go back in time you can see members of the family alternating it's spelling as it suited them until a few generations above Lloyd, there is no "e" on the end and it stays that way until you get back to Britain. My Grandmother is no less a Seely because of the "e" tacked on to her name.
Mike Thompson from Michigan..then Indiana..then Pennsylvania and further...probably somewhere there are sheep. Call me Legion for I am many.

uneven

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Re: Levi Thompson b. 1834ish lived in Alexandria Indiana..brick wall.
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2010, 05:23:01 AM »
Okay. These are the kinds of statements I think are unsupportable (from the Clan MacTavish facebook page):

"Thus supporting the fact that MacTavish and Thompson ARE THE SAME. It has also proven that the MacTavish and the Campbell are in NO WAY related."

Forgetting for a moment what they're saying about Thompson...look at what they say about Campbell!

You can't prove that. You can't prove that two whole surnames are not in any way related. Until every single MacTavish and Campbell on the planet have been tested you can't even get close to that statement. Even then if they were all tested you'd have to exhume every corpse and test it, because the linking person may have died.

Further if MacTavish is Thompson then you're left with the daunting task of proving that every Thompson on the planet in no way matches a Campbell.
Mike Thompson from Michigan..then Indiana..then Pennsylvania and further...probably somewhere there are sheep. Call me Legion for I am many.

William J. Thompson

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Re: Levi Thompson b. 1834ish lived in Alexandria Indiana..brick wall.
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2010, 11:56:02 AM »
Have you done any DNA testing? It hasn't been that helpful for me yet, but I think that is because participation among Thom(p)sons is pretty light compared to our biomass on the planet.
I haven't made the DNA plunge yet...I'm still trying to make sense of how it all works! Too many numbers for my brain.  :-\  When I save my pennies, I may pop for a chromosomal comparo to see what comes up. But as you've found, I fear I may just end up a "citizen of the world."

uneven

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Re: Levi Thompson b. 1834ish lived in Alexandria Indiana..brick wall.
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2010, 01:28:08 PM »
Yeah, DNA has been a bit disappointing for me. Mainly because, at this time, I have some pretty rare values. A person wants to have a few isolating markers so that they can tell who relatives are among their matches...but in my case there are so many that effectively everyone gets weeded out.

What you've said about the cost is really informative. It's expensive. For me it was a totally selfish act that took a hundred plus dollars away from my wife and kids. Cost alone helps to determine who will be tested. So I could be the only Thompson like me for years because of lack of interest, fear or cost of participation.

Of course the golden nugget that's held out there is the opportunity to find a Thom(p)son...or anyone really who is actually related to me through that single male line. Since I know the least about my own father's family it's actually a pretty good fit.

So in a totally self serving way, I want every male Thompson to test because it will help me find them and they may know more than me...or we could connect the dots until we meet up in the middle. It may never tell me where in the world my family is from, but it could tell me that you and I are related. Then we start digging to figure out where and how our families lost each other!
Mike Thompson from Michigan..then Indiana..then Pennsylvania and further...probably somewhere there are sheep. Call me Legion for I am many.

Mary

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Re: Levi Thompson b. 1834ish lived in Alexandria Indiana..brick wall.
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2010, 06:25:28 PM »
Okay ----DNA.  There are (who knows HOW many) many "lines" of Thom(p)son.  It is a patronymic surname, so when the surnames were "set" (ours would have probably been around 12-1300), the then-current Thom(p)son offspring became surnamed Thom(p)son (or some variation). Surnames were "set" in the highlands some 300 years later. So, if the original Thoms were not related, their DNA streams are going to be totally different even though they share the same last name and history (for the Scottish ones). HOWEVER, you CAN tell where the line originated - Ireland, Scotland, England, Germany, etc from your 67 marker (I'm not sure about fewer markers) DNA test and various associated pages. That starts narrowing the field. You may be disappointed to find out that your ancestors are not Scottish....but the whole point of the DNA testing is to find out WHO YOU ARE, so it shouldn't really matter that you are/aren't Scottish! Our use of DNA isn't for "proving" a right to belong to anything. It's to help members find a clue as to their line's origins (in whatever country) and if they may be blood-related to another member who might have genealogy info to share.

MacThomas is in/around Glenshee, MacTavish (BTW Clan Campbell's history clearly states originated from the Campbell line, "MacTavish ('Son of Thomas' in Gaelic) sept, descended from a Thomas Campbell" from the ccsna.org site,  so I find their distancing from Campbells strange!) may have had some local Thoms but they didn't have a clan until at least 1793 or, possibly, 1993. Take your pick. Under the old clan system, you would have attached yourself to a strong clan and MacTavish (if a clan) wasn't a large, strong one.....so chances are Thoms would have aligned with Campbell or maybe Donald. No problem there. BUT, to claim the bulk of Thom(p)sons as a whole belong to ANY clan other than their own is questionable. And, when you add the location of the Thoms versus the location of MacTavish/MacThomas...it's even more obvious that, while local Thoms may have joined them, the vast majority were far too far away to have done so...and, according to the Scottish Parliament, Thomsons were recognized as their own clan, so those in the borders or Lothians already had a clan presence. And THAT clan was probably made up of Thoms who may not all have been originally related - but they had the same surname and they lived, fought and died together as a clan.

The fact you have Donalds and Campbells isn't surprising if your Thoms were in the Argyll area as the MacDonald lands abut the Campbell clan territory. Three or more clans of Campbells surrounded the MacTavish land (depending on the era).


Thomas Thompson

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Re: Levi Thompson b. 1834ish lived in Alexandria Indiana..brick wall.
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2010, 06:43:01 PM »
Mike

   The Family Tree Thompson DNA project has some 500 test results. There are at least 20 different lines of related linkages. The surnames range from Brown, Owens,Laus, Ellis,King,Mings,Daily,Gorden,McClullan, Hanks and 3 with MacCombish spelling variations. The point as I see it is that regardless of the surname, many of us have similar DNA.
    McGee comparisons use as a modal the 1st 4 markers out of the first 12, and the 1st 4 out of the 13-25 markers, and the 1st 2 out of the 26-37 markers, and the 1st one out of the 38-47 markers. Each DYS has a range of expected values. Using an Infinite allele Mutation model the time to most recent common ancestor would be between 0 and 270 years.
    So far I think there are 4 (surname only connected) members of Clan Thompson Society who had a common ancestor from the same general area in Scotland. Because the actual numbers of same surname individuals was limited in the 1600-1700 period, it is probable that the Clan Thomson (or family Thomson) lived in that area.
   You reference the clan system of individuals adopting the clan surname as a possibility. I suggest you consider the fact that Thomson's were lowland. In general lowland families had evolved beyond the clan system some 200 years earlier. A true clan had to have both numbers and a strong chief. A single land owner and a single tenet do not make a clan. Even if you count all 16 same surname individuals in all of Knapdale.(1694 Hearth tax roll) you still don't have a clan.
    In the mid 1500's there are 40 fighting Thomson men listed by name from the Annan/ Dumfries area.They were not a true clan but they were family.
In fact there were several brothers listed from different villiages.
    Mike you have the Thomson surname and it is possible that your biological father had a different surname. It doesn't really matter. You are what you are and today you are a Thompson. In in future someone will test with a DNA linkage and will have a paper trail. Then you will truly know who you are.
Until then you are cousin to us.
Tom
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 08:36:46 AM by Mary »

uneven

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Re: Levi Thompson b. 1834ish lived in Alexandria Indiana..brick wall.
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2010, 10:41:15 PM »
Thanks Tom and Mary. I agree on all counts. Though, largely because I am a Thompson I will continue to set a tone of argument while agreeing and add more information to the conversation than anyone wanted.

It seems to me that even if my Thompsons were Thomsens, they decided to throw their lot in with the other Thompsons they lived around. As far as I can tell we've been Thompsons for about 180 years. I hope to push that back even further.

Historically, thinking about the movements of the Ulster Irish through America in the 17 and 1800s. We're most likely in that group. I'm 89% sure. We end up living in the same areas and going to the same Baptist churches that took over on the frontier where the Presbyterian churches left off. My Thompsons in Indiana are surrounded by Thompsons and others from Ireland. Our Thompson family story is that we're British. Being a border clan makes perfect sense for us in the context of the dates I have to work with. I like to say that I think we're Scots or close enough to hit one with a stick. I think that still holds.

Maybe that's what I'm afraid of. The shoe fits too well and too easily (except of course that I can't prove with a paper trail that I'm wearing a shoe).

----Begin long boring story----

When I was in middle school, I ended up with a book on Scottish clans. I can't tell you how, all I remember was that it was in my hands and in it there were family names and tartans. So there was Thomson. The tartan looked like someone had thrown up plaid after eating a lot of grass, dirt and carrots. No "p" though so I disregarded it. As a teenager, I ended up at Scottish fest with my future wife. For fun we looked for people claiming Thompson and there were the Campbells waiting for me. I figured they just told everyone they were Scottish to sell more Haggis helper. I ignored it. At our wedding my wife wanted me to wear a kilt. Mercifully for those in attendance, I declined. I can't claim it. I put it away. I'm a Thompson, we don't have anything.

Something snapped though when I was trying to help my kid fill out a family tree and I didn't even know my grandparents full names, where they were born, who their parents were. Instead of a tree, I sent my kid to school with a stick, just like every time I went to school and listened to all the other kids but couldn't participate in family tree day.

When I was a kid, we had this family crest/coat of arms project in art class. My friend brought in an actual coat of arms from someone in his family. I asked my dad if we had something like that? He said he always thought I would make one.

So I started with nothing. I've never been able to claim a group for my Thompsons. I could totally buy into the pitch over at Clan MacTavish and be done with it, but I'm on an actual journey not a trip to Disneyland. I don't need to be a Scot or Irish, British or German or Romanian (even though that's pretty cool). I just want to get this right. The old man told me to.

----end long boring story-----

As far as DNA goes. I need to spring for some testing from FTDNA. I intend to actually have my Dad tested to see where the two tests differ. I think I may have a bad copy on a couple of key numbers and if I get him the 67 marker test we can actually compare what FTDNA would have as opposed to Sorenson/Ancestry.com.

For my curiosity, I think I'll also need to dig for the extra money to do more SNP testing. Where I've left off with that R1b - S128...I wouldn't be related to any Thompsons, they would all be related to me. In fact, most people in Western Europe would be. So I need to verify that it goes further.

I feel a bit driven to pursue DNA, because right now, I am the line. I thought I was going to find that I was A Thompson in a long a line of others, but at the moment I'm THE Thompson so I have to represent.

I've been trying to squeeze as much information out of those 46 markers as I can. It's not easy, but I have a few ideas about why I bring all the germans and scandinavians to the party at the genepool.

The first is obvious, I'm a Thomassen or Thompsen and we changed out names after coming to the U.S. sometime before 1834 to better blend in with the locals.

The second one incorporates a the TMRCAs of my closest matches (usually in the 500 years ago range) and includes my matches from Scotland and the borders. During the multitude of wars in Europe around the time of the Reformation, Scots and I'm sure Northern English joined armies and served as soldiers of fortune and guards in Germany, Denmark, Sweden. Many of them, of course, stayed. Even in Poland there are still families that have Polishized Scottish names.

The Third one covers the broadest spectrum. It doesn't take in to account the TMRC but seems geographically sound and might explain why I look like people so dispersed on the eastern and southern side of England and Scotland, in the western isles and around the edge of Ireland and maybe why it's hard to figure out what R1b I am and why sometimes R1a people show up in my 1 to 50 generation matches. Maybe I'm actually one of those Jute/Angle/Saxon/Germanic invader guys? Lowland Scots has a lot of borrow words from Danish.

The fourth is it's all coincidence.
Mike Thompson from Michigan..then Indiana..then Pennsylvania and further...probably somewhere there are sheep. Call me Legion for I am many.

uneven

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Re: Levi Thompson b. 1834ish lived in Alexandria Indiana..brick wall.
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2010, 07:30:09 PM »
Again, I should point out that as far as I know, my Thompsons sprang out of the ground in Pennsylvania and Indiana and DNA has just been sort of inconclusive. I have nothing to go on and I've followed endless leads chasing things down. My blog is really meant to be that message in a bottle, to show that I went through a process of growth and to present my own evidence to someone in the future who may find it.

My last long boring story shows that, if anything, I've danced around being a Scot since I was 13. I just can't seem to get that definite answer anywhere. It's irritating because other people seem so sure. I know that as soon as I pick something and decide that's the thing, it'll get snatched away and I'll just have been a jackass.

When looking at DNA. I always run into the same guy. Miles Kehoe. He's first generation American with an old Irish name. I run into him all the time because we have many of our oddest numbers in common. We're most likely not related, but when he looks for matches he gets the same sorts of things I do. Also he gets no Kehoes.

His family has been in Ireland for at least 300 years. They believe they came from the north and moved down to Wexford. At one point he was hypothesizing that he was some some kind of Gallowglass (spelling?) descendant. I contacted him once, he was not very interested in talking...most people don't want to find a Thompson in their closet. So I moved on. I hunted around and looked through possible leads for myself. The French DNA project (normans). There he was..Kehoe. Scottish L21 project..Kehoe. He appears all over the place. Always hunting the same things I'm hunting.

Recently, I read a blog post from him on a DNA forum that would sort of explain why he wasn't interested in talking. His DNA is everywhere and he'd spent enough money to prove that it couldn't prove anything. He basically called it quits. The only Kehoes that look like him are those he could pick up phone and call in Ireland.
Mike Thompson from Michigan..then Indiana..then Pennsylvania and further...probably somewhere there are sheep. Call me Legion for I am many.

uneven

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Re: Levi Thompson b. 1834ish lived in Alexandria Indiana..brick wall.
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2010, 08:37:49 PM »
Had to go take care of some sick kids...there.

So, I guess that's why I'm here. The clan Thom(p)son society seems to be the most reasonable and willing to say that not all Thompsons spring from the same guy in the highlands. Being an Ulster Scot or Borders English is the most likely scenario for me given my limited education in migrations through the U.S. and Thompsons in general.

I feel like I can kind of back up Miles Kehoes Scoto-Norse or Britano-Norse idea and it seems to fit my odd DNA. Unlike him I don't have 300 years of history or another Thompson in Indiana or Pennsylvania to call but I do have the cruel hand of fate on my side.

Until I claim something, own it and get behind it, I'll never be proven wrong and find out what I really am.

So I think I should call myself a Scot, get a tartan, steal my neighbor's sheep, save my pennies and join Clan Thom(p)son. That way my 1st cousin 16 times removed can call me from the Netherlands and tell me we're Dutch. Just to let you know though, I'm keeping the sheep.
Mike Thompson from Michigan..then Indiana..then Pennsylvania and further...probably somewhere there are sheep. Call me Legion for I am many.

Thomas Thompson

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Re: Levi Thompson b. 1834ish lived in Alexandria Indiana..brick wall.
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2010, 11:30:26 AM »
Hello Mike  :) ;D ::)

    Most of the so-called experts say the Thomas naming convention began with either the Norse or Christan Knights returning from battles with the Muslims.
Assuming that is true, I am beginning to have real concerns about your seemly obsessive fascination with sheep. The historical reviews seem to indicate that the expanded sheep industry only became a major factor in Scotland after the fallout of 1745. Supposedly the 'Chiefs' sold out their tenets for higher rent from the English sheep farmers. Of course the jokes about the Scottish/sheep affections already existed.
  My point is you have ALL the expected traditions of a TRUE Scotsman.  ;D  :)Get a kilt, steal some sheep (from your English neighbors) and sell them for the penny's to become a supporting member of Clan Thom(p)son Society.
Tom

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Re: Levi Thompson b. 1834ish lived in Alexandria Indiana..brick wall.
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2010, 04:35:15 AM »
Haha! It's a plan!
Mike Thompson from Michigan..then Indiana..then Pennsylvania and further...probably somewhere there are sheep. Call me Legion for I am many.

Thomas Thompson

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Re: Levi Thompson b. 1834ish lived in Alexandria Indiana..brick wall.
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2010, 09:28:27 AM »
Hi Mike
  Sorry it took me so long to find bits and pieces of some old research I have accumulated.
  I think this was found in "Winning the West" by Theodore Roosevelt Vol 1.
   Your mixed DNA may be due to a reintroduction of European blood. " ...it will be sufficient to refer the reader seeking further information of the [subject of Scottish influence in Europe] to refer to the following works: (1) Fischer, The Scots in Germany (1902). The Scots in Eastern and Wesstern Prussia (1903), The Scots in Sweden (1907); all three volumes published in Edinburgh. (2) Steuart, Scottish influences in Russian Glasgow (19113), : Papers relating to the Scots in Poland, Edinburgh (1915), and numerous essays by the same author in recent volumes of the Scottish Historical Review. (3) Donner, The Scottish families in Finland and Sweden, Helsingfors.(1884). (4) Forbes Leith, The Scots Men-at-Arms and Life guards in France, Edinburgh (1882,Vol2).
   
.You might also look in the Register of the privy Council. v 8. pp. lxxxviii-xci and the amended list in v 9., pp. Lxxx-lxxxi. The Plantation in Ulster.
For the most part the settlers were selected from Dumbartonshire, Renfrewshire, Ayrshire, Galloway, and Dumfriesshire. It was a slow steady stream of colonist. Gardiner the Historian say that in 1640 it was estimated that there were 40,000 ablebodied Scots in the north of Ireland.Sir William Petty states 'that a very large emigration had taken place from Scotland after Cromwell settled the country in 1652," and writing in 1672 he estimates the Scots population in Ireland at 100,000 Before the Ulster plantation began there was already a considerable Scottish occupation of region nearest Scotland. These settlements were confined to Counties Down, and Antrim.which were not included in the scheme of the plantation..
  These are just a few of sources to check.
Tom

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Re: Levi Thompson b. 1834ish lived in Alexandria Indiana..brick wall.
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2010, 02:44:34 PM »
Thanks much for those references Tom.

Those timeframes for Scots abroad would help explain many of my 500 plus or minus TMRC DNA matches outside of he British Isles. I was reminded of the movement of Scots as bodyguards when I was talking to the lone Steiner that shows up in my list. Her family story is that they were descended from a bodyguard to a German noble person and gained acclaim by strangling an attacking bear to death with their own two hands.

I can't guarantee that they were Scots but ... I mean, if they had then eaten the bear uncooked on the spot, that would have cemented it.

Also of interest in my hunt, I got off my butt and contacted the Knowltons. They're always coming up on top of my searches. I place them in Kent because HON and many Knowltons seem to agree they're from Kent. It turns out though that there is little real evidence they are from Kent and they dispute that claim now.

I talked with a guy who is running their DNA project and they have a bit of an issue. Knowlton isn't very popular, even in Britain. It's most popular in the U.S. and Canada from Nova Scotia down to Massachusetts. Oddly though the family appears to be split in two. One part is R1b and looks an awful lot like me. The other is T not related in tens of thousands of years.

They also largely dispute being from Kent. They were very interested in looking into my family because Knowltons don't seem to match many people at all, but there are some non-knowltons who seem to match them very closely...and not many others.

What's nice is that these Knowltons would be about 200 years away for a common ancestor (if they were Thompsons which I assume is the correct thing to be) and that puts us in the range of the ancestors I know about.

They're possibly from Nova Scotia in the 1600s (which is interesting all by itself) and I've looked at a few pedigree charts and I see the name Thompson popping up as a middle name among their relatives. It seems like an odd middle name.

They also mentioned Nortons in their early history in that they married into the family or may be misspelled Nortons themselves. I also have a fairly close Norton in my DNA matches.

Here's another odd thing I think for these Knowltons. I see that their branch, living in Ulster New York in the 1700s is Presbyterian. You don't have to be Scottish to be Presbyterian, but ...it seems fishy anyway.

I looked up some of the history of Nova Scotia and they received a bunch of Scots (I think during the clearances) and they also actively recruited people from New England and a bunch of Lowland Scots and Borderers took them up on it.

Of course I see connections everywhere, I'm sure even when there aren't any.

mike
Mike Thompson from Michigan..then Indiana..then Pennsylvania and further...probably somewhere there are sheep. Call me Legion for I am many.