Author Topic: Thomson Motto  (Read 17512 times)

Allan Thomson

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Thomson Motto
« on: January 06, 2010, 08:48:26 AM »
I have read the previous discussion on a Thomson Motto.  I have uncovered a number of Mottos during my research into Thomson Arms.  While there are some common themes it is worth noting that each armiger chooses their own Motto.  Themes perhaps exist when an armiger chooses to incorporate the Motto of an ancestor, but equally it may be chosen for no other reason than it appeals to the person in question.

The following is a list of mottos (and a few translations) which may be of some interest to those who have delved into the subject of Mottos.  

“Honestie is the best policie”,  James Thomsone
"Patientia Et Gratia Vinco",   George Thomsone of Maynes     (I conquer by patience and grace)
“Fato Prudentia Major” ,  Mr William Thomson of Fairliehope (Prudence is greater than fate)
“Honestie is good policie”,  James Thomson Merchant in Kirkaldie
“Amo Honesta”,  David Thomsone portioner of Ketle  (I admire honest deeds)
“Deus Providebit” ,  Mr William Thomsone of Fauchfield -- (God will provide)
“Deus Providebit”,  Thomas Thomsone of Cocklow, Aberdeen
“Patientia Vinco”,,  James Thomson of Wester Bogie -- (I conquer by patience)
“Fortis Et Fidus”,,  Thomson of Caltonhill      (Strong and faithfull - or perhaps brave and faithful)
“Fortis Et Fidus”,,  Primrose Thomson
“Optima Est Veritas”,  Thomson, Board of Excise
“Deus Providebit”,  Thomson of Buchromb
“Fear not Friendship”,  Thomson of Roehampton and Waverley Abbey
“Fortis in Arduis”,  Sir John Deas-Thomson, of Norton and the Platts  (Brave in difficulties)
“Meminisse Juvabit”,  Ringler-Thomson
“Curae Cedit Fatum”,  Ringler-Thomson – (Carefulness is a substitute for fortune)
“Suum Cuique”,  Ringler-Thomson – (To everyone his own)
“Deus Providebit”,  Thomson of Camphil, Renfrew Scotland.
“Vincit Omnia Veritas”,  Thomson of Bonaly, -- (Truth conquers all things)
“Optima est Veritas”,  Thomson of Dalmuir – (Truth is best)

There are probably some I have missed but this is a fairly comprehensive list.

Allan Thomson
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 10:43:05 AM by Allan Thomson »

Thomas Thompson

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Re: Thomson Motto
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2010, 10:51:49 AM »
  Alan
    That list should answer some of our members questions about our motto.  If my understanding of the Corporate arms process  is correct; when Lyon grants corporate arms the corporation will have the opportunity to select a motto. Additionally, the same motto can be used by differing parties.
   Please correct me if I am wrong.
Tom

Allan Thomson

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Re: Thomson Motto
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2010, 12:56:29 PM »
Hi Tom,

That sounds about right to me.  I imagine the Clan Thom(p)son Society will have a fair bit of leeway as regards Motto.

Allan Thomson

Parker Thomson

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Re: Thomson Motto
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2011, 10:58:14 AM »
Whatever the case, the motto should be agreed upon before Lyon Court grants recognition.  Maybe adopted on the home page of this website. I would cast my vote for something in Latin, upholding the tradition of Clan Mottos.  And the Motto should relate to "Truth" or "Honesty" in it's concept because that seems to be a common thread in the other mottos throughout Thomson history.
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Mary

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Re: Thomson Motto
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2011, 06:37:47 AM »
Well - Michael has put up a voting offer for selecting a clan motto TWICE and the winner was the traditional "Honestie is the best Policie." Records support this motto as the most often used. Is it my favorite? No, but we are RESURRECTING a clan, not building a new one so our feeling was that we should use IT'S motto.

What think you?

Parker Thomson

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Re: Thomson Motto
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2011, 08:23:19 PM »
I think just what I said- about Scottish Clan Mottos being in Latin.  I also think that if our Clan Society is to have a broad appeal, A Latin motto like Amo Honesta covers the concept of "Honestie is the Best Policie."    However, the last thing that I would  want to do is repeat the mistake of most Scottish cultural movements and defeat it through divisiveness.  Even though we are striving to be a recognized Scottish society, our foundations are in America, the supposed epitome of Democracy under the umbrella of a Constitutional Republic.  Therefore I have stated my mind in the Forum, but I will not be an divisive over it regardless of my strong feelings.  In this case, I will defer to the opinion of the majority.  I do hope that only the "votes" of members (those who have paid for their annual or lifetime Clan memberships) will be counted in the decision.
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Mary

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Re: Thomson Motto
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2011, 11:44:42 AM »
Hi Parker --

No divisiveness here! I was just saying why we picked the motto that we did.  I also think it should be in Latin (if and when and case arises!!!!!) but I haven't got a clue on how to convert it from English to Latin!  French or German, yes............Latin...no. We can consider "shortening" the original too - I think that might be OK as long as we don't lose the basic meaning and keep a nod to the ancestors.

Hopefully, there will be people at Lyon Court who would be able to do that for us!  ???

Stirling Thompson

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Re: Thomson Motto
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2011, 07:11:18 AM »
The online latin translator says Honesty is the best policy translates to Probitas est optimus excolo.
Semper Fidelis! Semper Familia!
Stu

Mary

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Re: Thomson Motto
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2011, 06:57:15 AM »
Thanks Stu!

I never thought about the online translation pages..............DUH!




Parker Thomson

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Re: Thomson Motto
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2011, 04:28:10 PM »
Shorter too than the english.  Fits on the clan badge space better!  ::)  Just sayin'....
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Michael Thompson

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Re: Thomson Motto
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2011, 06:19:50 PM »
Well - Michael has put up a voting offer for selecting a clan motto TWICE and the winner was the traditional "Honestie is the best Policie." Records support this motto as the most often used. Is it my favorite? No, but we are RESURRECTING a clan, not building a new one so our feeling was that we should use IT'S motto.

What think you?

I have to agree Mary. I guess it must be pointed out that we are resurrecting a clan, but we are recreating much of it from nothing, since we don't have the unbroken history we'd like. For instance, we don't have a chiefly line, so we make do with a President and a society. We don't have any official history of a clan motto from the old days, so we have to make do with something. I think you're right in saying that it should reflect Thom(p)son history as much as possible, and Honestie is the Best Policie seems to be attested among more ancient Thoms than the others, but not by a wide margin. It's hard to say that it's authoritative in that sense, but it does seem to carry the most weight.

I also like the idea of having a motto in Latin and fairly short. That's why I proposed Unitas et Probitas (Unity and Honesty). It's not directly attested in any previous motto I've seen, but it carries the ideas of Unity (which is one of our core values, and something that sets us apart from THOSE people), and Honestie (which seems to be the value most prominently featured among extant mottos of Thom(p)son armigers. So I combined them into one short motto in Latin. It seemed to me that this was the best representation of our history and values. Of course, not a lot of other people agreed. :-)

I posted a clan motto opinion poll twice, based in the idea that a motto ought to have popular support among the members. Neither of them really got much input. the first had 15 votes, with the aforementioned "Honestie is the Best Policie" beating out the others, but only one vote better than the three other mottoes tied for second place.

The second was slightly better, with 21 votes and a clear difference between "Honestie" at 8 votes, compared to 5 and 4 for the next most popular.

So "Honestie is the Best Policie" is certainly the top vote-getter. The trouble is, it still represents only a tiny fraction of our membership, and probably a micro-miniscule fraction of Thom(p)sons worldwide. There are 223 registered members of the forum as of today, so the biggest vote we got was less than one percent of the members here, which I imagine must only be a fraction of actual clan members.

So Mary, I agree with you in principle, but I'm not sure we need to be bound too tightly by a couple of polls which may or may not reflect the actual opinions of our members. "Honestie" seems to have the most historical attestation, but even then, only somewhat more. There are dozens of others that are NEARLY as popular. So I'm also inclined to think we should go with history, but I'm not entirely convinced history speaks with a clear message on this topic.

Perhaps someone could make an authoritative review of the literature on Thom(p)son mottos. That would help. And before we actually select one, maybe it could be put to an actual vote of the membership. At least, such a two-pronged approach would be my recommendation. I don't think we really have sufficient information yet to make the best decision. Unless of course our revered President wants to make an executive decision.;)
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Parker Thomson

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Re: Thomson Motto
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2011, 07:51:37 PM »
Well stated, Michael- as usual.  Thanks, 'bro! :D
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Michael Thompson

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Re: Thomson Motto
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2012, 07:14:03 AM »
Got an interesting e-mail with some quotes regarding honesty, which I thought might shed some interesting light on this topic.

Quote
Regardless of policy, honesty is easier on the nerves.

The whole art of government consists in the art of being
honest. - Thomas Jefferson

The badge of honesty is simplicity.

It matters not what you do—
Make a nation or a shoe;
For he who does an honest thing
In God's pure sight is ranked a king. - John Parnell

Even a little lie is dangerous; it deteriorates the
conscience. And the importance of conscience is eternal,
like love. - Pablo Casals

Not keeping an appointment is an act of clear dishonesty.
You may as well borrow a person's money as his time.

It takes an honest person to admit if he's tired or just
lazy.

He who loses honesty has nothing else to lose.

There's one way to find out if a man is honest--ask him. If
he says yes, you know he is a crook. - Groucho Marx

An honest man is the noblest work of God. - Alexander Pope
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Mary

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Re: Thomson Motto
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2012, 07:57:50 PM »
How about   "DENY US NOT"...........check out the home page.  ;D