Author Topic: On Historie and of that ilk  (Read 13178 times)

Scotsmor

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On Historie and of that ilk
« on: March 16, 2008, 07:57:46 PM »
Historians use the word presentism to describe the tendency to judge historical figures by contemporary standards. As much as we all despise and sexism, these isms have been considered moral turpitudes, and thus condemning Thomas Jefferson for keeping slaves or Sigmund Freud for patronizing women is a bit like arresting someone today for having driven without a seat belt in 1923. And yet, the temptation to view the past through the lens of the present is nothing short of overwhelming.
Daniel Gilbert, Stumbling on Happiness, (2005)
(I think we need Poor Richard’s Bacchus Room here eventually. I know poor Mary is worked to the bone with all the changes to sites, forums, newsletters, et al. I don’t know where to post this on our new site, as it does not directly depose on Scottish and Thompson things.)
Presentism is a far better word than revisionism. Revisionism and its Marxist and Soviet connotations is the mental disorder of progressive liberals today. The most recent example of this is Barak Hussein Obama’s spiritual and Christian advisor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright Jr. rant about “rich, white folks” bringing down 9/11 on America for our bombing of Hiroshima, Nagasaki and  so on ad naseaum. I would like to know what is “reverend” and “Christian” about him spewing this hate.
“We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York, and we never batted an eye,” Wright says. “We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is brought right back in our own front yards.”  
In a later sermon, Wright revisits the theme, declaring: “No, no, no, not God bless America — God damn America!”  From MSNBC 15 March 2008.
This is typical mindless leftist rhetoric. I am sad to say this is typical of what comes from the Black pulpit. Anyone who has studied history in depth would know why the Nips were bombed. It saved Japanese lives, American and Allied Lives. I don’t remember Americans, Australians, Canadians or Brits suppressing South Africans.I know we put serious sanctions on them. I am digressing and I was making a point about  “presentism”. I do have to add that I wasn’t born with a silver rattle in my Angus.
How does this relate to the History of the British and Irish Isles? It is not a modern conceit. Here is an example from a C.R.L. Fletcher’s History of England from 1911:
It was, however, a misfortune for Britain that Rome never conquered the whole island. The great warrior Agricola did penetrate far into Scotland but he could leave no trace of civilization behind him, and Ireland he never touched at all. So Ireland never went to school, and has been a spoilt child ever since.
Since when was Britain a separate island? There was neither a Scotland nor an Ireland then as we know it today. There was no England either in this time period! Did anyone see Simon Schama’s A History of Britain? It was on the History Channel in the US and the BBC in Britain. He is a master of “presentism”. He glosses over the ancient history of the aboriginal Britains and the Celts. He quickly jumps to the Romans and then to the Anglo-Saxon, and then to the Normans. As if the Anglo-Saxons were a monolithic and hegemonic force that took the Isles in force and then the Normans came in. And then he goes on for half a show on how the Jews were kicked out of Britain under King Eduard “Long Shanks”. I am not a anti-Semite and they were small fry in the history of that time. We also have contemporary Celtic historians who rail about the Saxon Sledgehammer that was trying to snuff out Celtic culture. The Isles were more like the Wild West with Celtic Cowboys in Dal Riada, Welsh Raiders all over the map, Angles, Jutes, half-Danes, Fresians, former slaves from the Roman Empire, Gauls , Belges, and so on. They were like the North American tribes; fighting against each other, plotting against each other, or making treaties with each other. It is the classic human condition, pure rat-bastard Shakespeare. Yeah that bastard suffered from presentism for his time. Look at his treatment of MacBeth.
I posted a question on here yesterday about were did the ancient Thom(p)sons come  from. The answer was on my bookshelf. It is called The Isles, A History, by Norman Davies. (Oxford, 1999.) That is another post. This book is so comprehensive. I most post this before I see the leper ceann Stephen. Yes that is a play on words.
Aye yours,
Rabbie O’Tammais






Barbara

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Re: On Historie and of that ilk
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2008, 09:32:29 PM »
Great post Rob and yes we do need Richard on here.  Where are you Richard?  Rob, I can't wait to read about where the Thom(p)sons came from.

Would you believe two of my neighbors are descendants of Agricola?  There use to be three but one died a couple of years ago. Their family tree goes back to Luther, as told to my daughter.  My daughter and the lady have a great friendship and were discussing family history one day and the lady told my daughter that there was a famous General in her line that they were not very proud of because he lost a war or something in Scotland, she couldn't remember all the details.  As my daughter knew her maiden name was Agricola she told the lady that was the General that we Scots beat the s**t out of.  ;D  They had a great discussion about ancestors. 

Barbara
"Kindness is the language the deaf can hear and the blind can see." - Mark Twain

Scotsmor

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Re: On Historie and of that ilk
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2008, 10:12:20 PM »
Barbara LOL,
You got me for a few minutes! LOL! Darlin' I got Cash in my genes! This is true. Barbara, you are a sweetie. I think Agricola was the father of Coca Cola. I think everyone should have a NFL name.
Rob

Barbara

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Re: On Historie and of that ilk
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2008, 12:23:56 PM »
Rob, I was serious.  Our neighbors are descendants of Agricola and they can prove it, their ancestry tree is posted in their church in Long Island, New York.  They are transplanted Yankees, been in this neighborhood for over 25 years but make frequent trips back home.

I think you may have some Cash in your background if you like a dram or two or three.... ;D

Barbara
"Kindness is the language the deaf can hear and the blind can see." - Mark Twain

Scotsmor

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Re: On Historie and of that ilk
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2008, 04:13:39 PM »
Barbara,
I apologize. My posting was not about Agricola but about presentism. I just used a quote from “The History of England” to make a point. I don’t really know anything about Agricola as my interest lies in the time that the Romans left Britain to deal with the deteriorating situation in the eastern provinces to about the time of Eduard “Long Shanks” the First. I am interested in how the clans as we know them today formed. I am interested where the Thom(p)sons came from.
Where were your neighbors from? 

Barbara

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Re: On Historie and of that ilk
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2008, 09:25:35 PM »
No apology needed Rob, I mistook your meaning.   ;D

My Agricola neighbors are from Long Island, New York, before that Italy.


Barbara
"Kindness is the language the deaf can hear and the blind can see." - Mark Twain

MACTAVISH

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Re: On Historie and of that ilk
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2008, 04:46:49 AM »
IN 3 WEEKS WHILST IN MELROSE I SHALL ENDEAVOUR TO FIND THE ROOT OF THE THOMPSONS AS FACT.WHO BETTER TO HELP THAN THE LOCAL THOMPSONS...............

Mary

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Re: On Historie and of that ilk
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2008, 06:39:52 AM »
Sounds like a plan!

I keep finding references to Ayr/Ayrshire, Dumfrieshire, Duddingston.  Don't know too much about the area, but there were several Thompsons who were ministers at Duddingston and several armigers are from that area.

Thank you for taking time to do the 'leg work' for us!

MARY

Scotsmor

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Re: On Historie and of that ilk
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2008, 10:24:32 PM »
MacTavish comes to the rescue again!

MACTAVISH

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Re: On Historie and of that ilk
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2008, 11:47:35 AM »
the thompsons are widespread thru scotland but originate in the borders, of course theyre in ayr and duddington(central edinburgh)  and dumfries but they were tried at berwick in reiving cases and so i would be tempted slightly further east of dumfries. moffat/locherbie/jedburgh/melrose/galashiels.the marches as you previously alluded to barbara ive already looked in the telephone directory and there are lots of small businesses -thompson/thomsons-including a top lawyer;thompson. i suppose youguys being reivers needed a lawyer in the family! im staying in melrose and will do what i can.

Mary

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Re: On Historie and of that ilk
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2008, 08:01:05 PM »
Quote
i suppose you guys being reivers needed a lawyer in the family!

I don't know what I'm going to do with you, MACTAVISH!  Can't decide whether to kiss you or slap you!  I think, when we finally meet, I'll just do BOTH and that will cover the ground all the way around! ;D 

Still can't figure out why the Thomsons are so elusive. Have been doing a lot of study with Tom on patronymics - very interesting.  So much for people thinking they are related if they have the same last names!!!

Mary

MACTAVISH

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Re: On Historie and of that ilk
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2008, 11:50:00 AM »
YOU'LL NEED TO SLAP ME AND THEN KISS IT BETTER MARY! BUT WHY DO I GET THE FEELING YOU WOULDNT WANT TO CHANGE ME?
RE THE THOMSON/THOMPSON ENIGMA. YOU KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE WHEN YOUVE BEEN STARING AT SOMETHING FOR AGES AND CANT SEE IT AND THEN SUDDENLY IT DAWNS ON YOU???!!! THE PROBLEMS ANSWER HAS BEEN STARING ME IN THE FACE..
 IT HAS TO BE THE BORDER CHANGES.THOSE LIVING NEXT TO ENGLAND REALLY HAVE BEEN SUBJECTED TO BOTH ENGLISH AND SCOTS LOCAL GOVERNMENT RULE THROUGH THE CENTURIES.THE BORDER TOWNS HAVE BEEN IN SCOTLAND THEN ENGLAND THEN SCOTLAND THEN ENGLAND.........BERWICK ON TWEED ISCURRENTLY IN ENGLAND(THE ONLY ENGLISH SOCCER SIDE THAT PLAYS IN THE SCOTTISH LEAGUE!)IT IS AS WE SPEAK GOING BACK INTO SCOTLAND WITH YET ANOTHER BOUDARY CHANGE!
CONSIDER LOCAL CENSUS THROUGH THE AGES RECORDING THOMPSON /THOMSON IN THE COUNTRY THE TOWNS WERE IN AT THAT TIME.THERES YOUR ANSWER,IM POSITIVE. 'WHATS YOUR NAME'? -'THOMSON' THE ENGLISH WOULD WRITE 'THOMPSON'
ITS FEASIBLE THAT THE THOMPSONS WHO HEADED NORTH TO SETTLE IN UNARDRY WERE VERY IRITATED BY THESE CONSTANT BOUNDARY AND NAME CHANGES......AND ALSO THE ENGLISH LAWS WERE FAR LESS FORGIVING!