General Category > Heraldry
Clan Thomson & Heraldry
Allan Thomson:
JAMES RODGER THOMSON OF DALMUIR HOUSE
-Arms granted on 01/07/1874- Volume 9 Folio 58 of the Register.
James Rodger Thomson was married to Marion Paterson Neilson. He lived at Mountblow house in Old Kilpatrick, Dunbartonshire. He was the son of George Thomson (b1815 - 1866). His father George went into business with his brother James (elder) Thomson and they formed the firm James & George Thomson. They started with engine building but expanded into shipbuilding in 1851. Their company was well known on the Clydeside and they produced over forty steamers. They had premises at Govan, Glasgow and then new works at Clydebank with a staff of some 4000 employees. James (elder) retired early and his brother George died suddenly with the company then transferring to George’s sons (also called James & George).
We are interested in James Rodger Thomson and the descent of his arms. He had four sons that I have been able to identify:
1) William Neilson Thomson – Born 24 July 1871
2) James Rodger Thomson Jr - Born 8 October 1872
3) Frederick Claude Thomson – Born 22 October 1874
4) George Thomson- Born 15 November 1877
Thomson, William Neilson - Joined the 1st Dumbartonshire Rifle Volunteer Corps and was commissioned 2/Lt 22 February 1890. He was posted to 'G' Company at Maryhill. He resigned his commission on 4 December 1895. In 1899, he joined the Queen's Own Royal Glasgow Yeomanry and was sent to South Africa at the declaration of the Boer War. In 1901, he transferred to the State Railway Service (later know as the Imperial Railway Service) where engineers were sorely needed to drive armoured trains carrying troups and ammunition. William died, while so employed, of yellow fever at Watervaal Onder, Transvaal on 4 March 1901. He is buried in at Watervaal Onder, South Africa.
Thomson, James Rodger Jr - see below
Thomson, George 2/Lt, Died 11 September 1916 at Guillemont, Somme, France and buried 12 September 1916 in Guillemont Road Cemetery, Guillemont, France. Lt Thomson joined the Canadian Expeditionary Force to World War 1 in 1914 after to emigrating to Canada in 1907 along with his other brothers. He was assigned to duty with the Division Ammunition Park as a private soldier. His enrolment number was 2424. On arrival in England in early 1915, he was offered a commission in the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders as a 2Lt which he readily accepted. This offer was made as a result of his late father being an Honorary Colonel of the regiment. Due to the horrific losses suffered by the London Scottish in earlier campaigns of 1916, George was seconded to duty with them. He died in that portion of the Battle of the Somme that took place around the area of Guillemont and not far from other infamous battle names such as Courcelette, Fleurs and the Quadrilateral. He died of his wounds that same day and was buried the following day in the Guillemont Road Cemetery.
Thomson, Frederick Claude I was contacted by a descendant of Frederick Claude Thomson. Frederick fought in the Boer war. Subsequently emigrated to Canada. Later he fought in the World War I. I note Frederick had issue of two daughters.
James Rodger Jr – I have been unable to ascertain any further information on James. Its probable that he went to Canada given the information above. It is also possible that there are living descendants of these Thomsons entitled to the original arms. There may even have been other brothers - although I have found no evidence of this.
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Stirling Thompson:
Very interesting stories indeed. Keep up the great work! Hey, if you get the chance maybe you could recruit Dave Thompson, SMP Highlands and Isles! Don't know if he's armigerous or not but to have an SMP as a member would be quite the coup!
Allan Thomson:
In 1672 an Act of the Scottish Parliament authorised the creation of the Public Register of All Arms and Bearings in Scotland. This Register is maintained by the Lyon Clerk and Keeper of the Records and contains an official copy of every Coat of Arms granted in Scotland since 1672.
Modern registatrations of grants of arms tend to be accompanied by a wealth of detail about the armiger and their family unfortunately the same is not true of the early registrations in 1672 – which were presumably carried out fairly quickly to comply with the new system of registration.
A number of early Thomsone arms were registered with the Lyon Court in 1672. These early registrations contain little more than the verbal description of the arms (blazon) and the name of the armiger. Whilst interesting by their very existence these entries do not tell us how long the arms had been in use and we cannot glean much useful information about the armigers who registered them.
VOLUME 1 (1672) contains the following Thomson(e) entries:
--- Quote ---JAMES THOMSONE one of the Clerks of the Exchequer bears Argent a stag’s head cabossed proper attired with ten tynes Gules in chief three cross crosslets fitchée Sable. Above the shield a helmet befitting his degree mantled gules doubled argent; Next is placed on ane torse for his crest a hand holding a cross crosslet fitchie sable. The motto in ane Escroll Honestie is the best policie
Mr WILLIAM THOMSONE of Fairliehope, Writer to her Majesties Signet Bears Argent a stag’s head cabossed proper on a chief wavy Gules a crescent between two mullets of the first. Above the shield a helmet befitting his degree mantled gules doubled argent; Next is placed on ane torse for his crest a quill proper surmounted of a crescent Or. The motto in ane Escroll Fato Prudentia Major
ANDREW THOMSONE, Advocate in Aberdeen, Brother to Mr William Thomson, Writer to his Majesties Signet, gives Argent a stag’s head cabossed proper on a chief wavy Gules a lozenge betwixt two mullets of the first. On ane helmet befitting his degree with a mantle gules doubled argent and wreath of his colours is sett for his Crest a crane holding in the beak a twig of palme proper. The motto in ane Escroll, Curae cedit Fatum
JAMES THOMSON Merchant in Kirkaldie Bears Argent a stag’s head cabossed proper on a chief engrailed Gules a mullet between two crescents of the first. Above the shield a helmet befitting his degree mantled gules doubled argent. The motto in ane Escroll Honestie is good policie
DAVID THOMSONE portioner of Ketle Bears Argent a stag’s head cabossed proper on a chief invected Gules a mullet between two crescents of the first. Above the shield a helmet befitting his degree mantled gules doubled argent. The motto in ane Escroll Amo Honesta
Mr WILLIAM THOMSONE of Fauchfield Bears Parted per pale Argent and Gules a stag’s head cabossed and attired with ten tynes counterchanged on a chief Azure a cross crosslet fitchée Or between a spur-revel and a crescent of the first. Above the shield a helmet befitting his degree mantled gules doubled argent. The motto in ane Escroll Deus Providebit
Mr THOMAS THOMSONE of Cocklow Bears Parted per pale Argent and Gules a stag’s head cabossed and attired with ten tynes counterchanged on a chief wavy Azure a cross crosslet fitchée Or between two spur-revels of the first. Above the shield a helmet befitting his degree mantled gules doubled argent. The motto in ane Escroll Deus Providebit
--- End quote ---
All of these arms can be viewed in the gallery of arms within this website or via Stephen Plowman’s online armorial http://www.heraldry-online.org.uk/thomson/Thomson-Arms-Vol-I.htm
A number of interesting points about the early registrations. Only two have registered a crest with the rest simply registering a sheild. The mottos are similar in a few but not all cases. I wonder what the connection (if any) was between William Thomsone and Thomas Thomsone that they should share the exact same motto.
Allan
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Thomas Thompson:
Hello again Alan. Welcome to the forum.
Your topic on the Thomson armigers is a needed subject as most of my fellow Americans know very little about heraldry.
I would be interested in any information you might have on the achievement of Sir Roy Thomson of Fleet. His grandson,
David Kenneth Thomson, 3rd Baron of Fleet. is reported to be the 16th richest man in the world. I wrote to him twice but was unable to get my letter past his social secretary. Of course, in his defense he was quite involved in the purchase of the news agency Reuters. I didn't ask him for a donation or assistance/involvement with Lord Lyon, I just thought it would be proper to get his permission to use the Thompson Dress Blue tartan as our clan tartan.
Do we, in fact, need his permission to use a tartan that is in common usage in the tartan market? Secondly, is there any possibility that you might be able to contact him through a different address (the only one we could find was a business address in Toronto, Canada) and pursue this question and inform him of our efforts to resurrect Clan Thom(p)son?
Allan Thomson:
Hi Tom,
I doubt I would have any more luck contacting David Kenneth Thomson, 3rd Baron of Fleet than you have enjoyed yourself. I think it is admirable that you wrote to him asking permission to use the tartan but I doubt that it is necessary to do this. It would have been excellent to have such a powerful Thomson armiger endorse the Clan Thom(p)son Society. I have often wondered if Sir Roy Thomson of Fleet was actually considering seeking Clan Chief Status when he had the Tartans designed but if he was he never followed through. An important point to be made here is that neither a clan society nor a group of armigers alone can form a clan - the process really requires the co-operation of both.
I intent to try and continue my research into the other Thomson armigers. Its worth ascertaining how many of the arms in the gallery might represent a possible existing armiger who might be prepared to join the Clan Thom(p)son Society. Likewise it is interesting to note which of the older armigerous Thomson families have petered out. On that note my next post will relate to James Thomson of Wester-Bogie.
Allan Thomson
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